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“I actually looked at this building before purchasing new construction farther west.. it is a nice building and has the amenities you would expect in a 4-5 floor elevator building, plus low assessments, but I wanted three bedrooms and preferred new construction.
‘However, I just checked out the prices here on the MLS and I’m stunned. I wasn’t crazy about the location, which is why my visit was nothing more than that, but there are currently 7 units for sale in the building between $380-$430K, and most are two-bedroom units with a small ‘den,’ which was little more than a closet from what I can remember.
“Considering the ‘prime’ Wilson Avenue location, I don’t know why anyone would buy these units when they can move to any of the new-construction developments a few blocks west for the same money and get three full bedrooms, sans (most of) the drunks and vacant retail spaces. There will be a Starbucks there soon also (in the Vis Vitae building at Clark and Leland) if that’s the only thing this location has going for it.”
–Ravenswood Dweller commenting on our post about resales at 4553 N Magnolia Ave
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{ 22 comments }
$400k is on the pricer side of Uptown but considering these units are 1300-1500sqft with a garage spot I wouldn’t consider them overpriced.
The remaining units in the new building on the 4400 block of Clark that are 1100-1200sqft are going for the same price + $25k for parking. The 1500sqft units in Vis Vitae are $450k + parking. The new building at montrose/sheridan has a small 3 bedroom at $425k + $25k for parking.
Seems to me buying one of the most expensive apartments (for its size) in a ward where Helen Shiller just got reelected for another four years is an incredibly risky proposition. Love or hate her, it’s clear that her policies have slowed the pace of gentrification and thus the rate of growth of property values.
Josh,
Are you quoting asking prices only? What about actual sales?
That area of Uptown has a lot of promise. The residential streets are amazingly beautiful, and there are several new businesses west of Broadway that have made the area more liveable–including a Starbucks right on Wilson. It just gets a bit hairy close to Broadway, and there are still problem buildings sprinkled throughout “Sheridan Park” (Uptown west of Brodway from Montrose to Lawrence). Will this stop gentrification? I don’t think so. Wicker Park STILL has a sprinkling of CHA scattered site housing, and it hasn’t stopped a thing. Also, Humboldt Park is much nastier than anything you’d ever see in central Uptown in terms of crime. I think Sheridan Park will be a good investment in the long run, but you will have to deal with some urban unpleasantness for a while. It’s definitely safer than some of the near south and west side neighborhoods that have been gentrifying lately.
There is so much unhappiness in Uptown among homeowners because so many of them thought the neighborhood would turn into Lincoln Park a year or two after they bought. If you don’t like the neighborhood as is, you’d be wise to purchase somewhere else.
Uptown has been on the verge of gentrifying for well over 20 years. Never quite gets there, but that reality doesn’t seem to damper the expectation, which is why this might be the most polarized neighborhood in Chicago.
You sound like Helen Shiller. I don’t think anyone thought Uptown would turn into Lincoln Park. Lakeview, perhaps. But not Lincoln Park!
Kidding aside, the “Uptown not Yuptown” rhetoric is tired and ridiculous. It’s easy to be preachy about a neighborhood you don’t live in. Maybe some people didn’t “know what they were getting into” when they moved here, but wanting to rid the neighborhood of crime is not a bad thing. Most “gentrifiers” moved here because it was what they could afford. It’s market forces more than any sort of conspiracy to cleanse the neighborhood of diversity and flavor. My exact condo three blocks south in Lakeview would have cost $75,000 more, and Edgewater was just too far North for me. I like the lakefront and proximity to Lakeview.
Even in its worst years, Uptown had a contingent of well-to-do residents along the Lakefront and in the mansions of the Hutchinson district. As happens among rabpidly mobile urban populations, the balance is shifting towards more of a middle-class to middle-upper-class populace, and the only people really nervous about it are the old school neighborhood left-wingers and people studying the Uptown’s unusual diversity from Northwestern and UIC. The reality is that the revitialization of Uptown is a wonderful phenomenon, and one that is part of a largely positive trend citywide.
The revitalization of urban neighborhoods, unfairly tagged “gentrification”, is the single most positive development in Chicago since World War II. In the 1970’s-early 1990’s, Chicago was on the verge of becoming an unmanageable ghetto surrounded by middle-to-upper class suburbs. Did this help the poor? No, it was a complete disaster, and the city nearly collapsed financially. Without “gentrification”, Chicago would resemble Detroit.
Moving to Uptown fits Oscar Wilde’s description of marriage: “the triumph of imagination over intelligence.”
Staying in Uptown fits Wilde’s definition of second marriage: “the triumph of hope over experience.”
Joe, you act like Uptown is 35th and State. Honestly, the “South Loop” is much more dangerous, if you ask me. In Uptown you have a few pockets of ghetto surrounded by nice North Side neighborhoods. In several other gentrifying areas you have a few pockets of ghetto surrounded by seriously dangerous neighborhoods. Which would you prefer? You can say that we’re full of imagination and hope for living here, but that’s giving in to the belief that things are bad in Uptown now. Repeat after me–much of Uptown is quite nice to live in RIGHT NOW. That’s right, my corner of Buena Park, along with many other parts of the neighborhood, could not change a single bit, and it would continue to be a great place to live. It won’t be Wilmette, but I’m alright with that.
“if you don’t like the neighborhood as is”.
That is truly a stupid statement. As for purchasing somewhere else why? You have told us in the past Barry that homeownership really makes no sense. Of course owning something is so… oh I can’t think of the word. Perhaps “bourgeois”?
Following that logic, if you can call it logic, and no neighborhood can ever change in any significant way.
Wilde said:
“A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone’s feelings unintentionally.”
“Everybody who is incapable of learning has taken to teaching.” Although, in your case Barry I would change “teaching” to “preaching”.
Preaching and pretension go together.
Wilde also said:
“I am not young enough to know everything.”
Barry, you are now old enough that you should realize that. However, it might get in the way of the preaching.
Wilde sorta summed up Barry’s view of Uptown when he said “Illusion is the first of all pleasures.” You can believe that Uptown really isn’t changing, but in that vacuous little heart of yours you know it is. As that great Irishman Billy Shakespeare said “”Therein lies the rub.” It must really grate you at some level to walk around and see the changes. Worse yet you take photos.
It may be changing slowly and perhaps those who wish to change it should move. Better it return to the glory days of massive crime, drug addiction, slum housing, and “peoples” marches for various issues.
In between shots of whiskey(correct Irish spelling) my drunken Irish born dad has some moments of wisdom. He used to talk about those who “didn’t know their ass from a hole in the ground” and those who were as “useful as bloody tits on a bull”.
I wonder who I would apply those quotes to.
HINT: Not Joe Zekas.
He may be a semi drunken, overtall, curmudgeon, but at least he has some real life experience. He also has a sarcastic sense of humor which is something that seems to evade the preachers among us.
Toodles.
UptownR, irishpirate,
I don’t think anyone at YoChicago doesn’t recognize the very real changes that have taken place in Uptown over the past 20 years.
We also recognize that parts of Uptown – perhaps even the majority of Uptown – have become reasonably desirable places to live.
Speaking for myself, I occasionally indulge in Uptown-bashing simply to joust with the pirate and to provide a mild antidote to Uptown boosterism.
Joe,
I don’t mind the “jousting” with you over Uptown. It is kinda amusing. I also recognize you do it just to stir things up. I don’t consider myself an Uptown “booster”. I don’t deny there are problems. Last week I linked to some photos of various “arrestees” in Uptown. I see problems and want to reduce them and people like Barry suggest I should move.
I’m not sure you should use “we” when talking about yourself and Barry. You both have very different points of view. You both may be “YO”, but you both aren’t “YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO”. Don’t ask me to explain that. It makes as much sense as Barry’s suggestion that people move if they want to see Uptown change.
As for Uptown itself south of Montrose the worst problem is annoying jerks who hang out in front of the UHaul and harass women. It ain’t pretty, but it beats shootings and drug dealing. The amazing thing is that 30 years ago Kenmore around Buena Avenue might have been one of the most dangerous areas in the city. Things change and Barry laments. Buena Park is arguably better than SOME areas of Lakeview.
The other areas of Uptown vary, but are getting better. There are still problems with drug dealing and violence on a few blocks. I just read about a “gooning” last month at Leland and Sheridan. Group of kids attacked a guy on a bike and took it.
Then of course there is the lamentable abundance of vacant storefronts. That is not a problem limited to Uptown, but it is clearly worse here than in some other lakefront hoods. At least in terms of restaurants and bars the area is rapidly improving.
OH well. Time for “Chicago Tonight” on Channel 11. Then I will run to the Jewel and hope I don’t get mugged by some well meaning Ravenswood resident.
irishpirate,
Only Barry speaks for Barry.
You don’t have to go back 30 years for Buena & Kenmore to have been raw.
Twenty years ago an old friend / real estate agent was standing on the sidewalk talking to a buyer when a dead body landed within a few feet of him. A drug dealer had knifed his girlfriend in a 3rd floor apartment and dumped what was left of her out the window. The buyer decided against buying.
We ran a coordinated open house walk on Kenmore just north of Buena one Sunday in, I think, 1989. The night before some local entrepreneurs stole the newly-installed sod from the front of several buildings and, on Sunday morning, sold the developers their own sod back. After re-installing it, they then charged a fee for taking care that nothing happened to it.
At the time my friend was trying to brand Buena Park as “Lincoln Park North.” The ads had a surfing polar bear out in Lake Michigan urging people to “catch the wave north.”
The days of yore!
And fifteen years ago my block was aparently filled with subsidized housing, one of the condo towers nearly went bankrupt and spiraled down to the point that you couldn’t get financing on any unit, and the pharmacy on the corner was abandoned. Now there is a vibrant crowded coffee house on the corner, most of the block’s housing is thriving and well taken care of, and people are on the street at all times of day. And the only “problem building” on the block is because the owner doesn’t mow the lawn often enough.
Joe,
I think I may remember your “friend”. If his initials were CS and he was associated with EDC then you need better taste in friends.
By the late 80’s Kenmore seemingly improved over the early 80’s. By that point a large number of buildings had been torn down and the ethnic variety of gangbangers was lessened.
From what I am told the late 70’s when white, black, Puerto Rican, Mexican, and Indian gangbangers fought for position in the southern part of Uptown was the “Winter of Uptown’s discontent.” It was certainly deformed and unfinished. It is better to have one group of bangers in an area than competing groups. Less violence that way.
If you want to read some amusing stuff google “gaylords” “Kenmore boys” and “gangs” and see what pops up. The even more amusing thing is that most of what you find was written by the ones who survived, who I would presume were brighter than the deceased. The white gangs used to fight the Puerto Rican gangs for control of the tiny traffic median at Montrose between Broadway and Sheridan.
Today it has some plants and flags. Hardly worth fighting and literally dying for.
I meant CK on the initials. I regret the mistake and blame it on my parents, schools, society, and alcohol.
irishpirate,
Right initials on the company (EDC), not on the individual.
For the record, I saw CK about a year ago, and asked him about the story that he shot his girlfriend’s horse in their living room. He denied it. I didn’t ask any follow-up questions, so he may have shot the horse in a different room.
Did he also shoot his girlfriend’s horse in his pajamas?
And if you don’t know the rest of the story, you need to study some (Groucho) Marxism.
Oh, that is some funny stuff. Lotsa profanity coming outta my mouth as I laugh Joe. I just googled CK. Seems he is just as “active” as ever. Keeps attorneys busy from what I read.
“Last night I shot an elephant in my Pajamas and how he got in my pajamas I’ll never know. …”
irishpirate,
Charlie just jumps from one scam to another.
EDC ran some of the first “rent to own” programs in Chicago. I’m sure that approach to moving property will be resurfacing soon.
Back in the 80’s the most notorious “real estate entrepreneur” (a/k/a slumlord) in Uptown was Lou Wolf and his buddies. Are they still around or did the law finally catch up with them?
Lou Wolf wss almost gone from Uptown by the 80s, except for the Uptown Theater. His notorious days go back well before that and ended in a conviction for arson.
By the late 80s Lou had moved on to building a 4-story building at Division and State on the strength of a permit for a 3-story building. It sat as a skeleton for years before he finallyl settled with the city.
Don’t know whether Wolf is still alive – when last I heard several years ago he still controlled a large amount of very valuable property.
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