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Now that JFJ Development and @properties have launched the marketing campaign for Broadway 3030, we’re starting to get more details about the project. Greg Eldridge of @properties sent me all sorts of information about the building’s floor plans and price points this morning. We’re still waiting on a high-resolution rendering, but I was able to crop a smaller version of the newly spruced-up image out of the project’s brochure (hence the “Experience the Excellence” stuff in the corner).
Layouts, sizes and prices for the building’s 53 homes break down like this:
- One-bedrooms have 887 to 999 square feet and are priced from the $310s to the $370s
- Two-bedrooms have 1,158 to 1,415 square feet and are priced from the $430s to the $560s
- Two-bedrooms with dens have 1,363 to 1,809 square feet and are priced from the $520s to the $760s
- Three-bedrooms have 1,486 to 2,706 square feet and are priced from the $570s to $1.21 million
- Three-bedrooms with dens have 1,917 to 3,039 square feet and are priced from the $860s to $1.28 million
One of the project’s selling points is the list of standard features, which Eldridge believes equals or tops the kinds of upgrade packages offered at most developments. For example, every kitchen has quartz and stone countertops, Snaidero cabinets, Sub-Zero, Wolf, Bosch and Dacor appliances, low-voltage under-cabinet lighting, and glass tile back-splashes.
Master bathrooms are outfitted with walk-in showers with stone or porcelain surrounds and frameless doors, Grohe, Kohler and Toto fixtures, Snaidero cabinets, quartz or stone countertops, and full-height mirrors with Lightology lighting.
Common areas include a fitness room, Wi-Fi lounge and party room, but for all intents and purposes, the building’s biggest amenity is going to be that 24/7 Dominick’s on the ground level.
Below is unit 317, the largest of Broadway 3030′s two-bedroom / two-bath units. The grocery store at 3030 N Broadway St will be open in the spring of 2010, with first deliveries beginning later that year.
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{ 21 comments }
How disappointing. I don’t know why developers continue to put tiny bedrooms in these units. 10×10 is maybe a den at best, not a second bedroom. Pretty poor plan in general.
The reason developers put 2nd bedrooms of that size in a 2 bedroom unit is quite simple…that’s what the vast majority of buyers prefer when faced with the choice of a larger 2nd bedroom or a larger kitchen/living/dining room. The reality for almost all 2 bedroom owners is that the guest bedroom is rarely used as a bedroom, and is usually used as an office/den that can be a guest bedroom when occasionally required. Virtualy all 2 bedroom buyers prefer to have as much square footage as possible in the areas they spend the most time every day, i.e. kitchen, living/dining room and master bedroom.
I disagree completely, unless you have some sort of evidence that can prove your claims. A 10×10 room is VERY small, even for an office. Even the master bedrooms in these units are small, regardless of the 2nd bedroom size. The reason the bedrooms are so small is simple, and has nothing to do with buyers, the developer is trying to maximize how many units they can put in for the maximum FAR (floor area ratio). So when they are squeezing in units certain aspects of their plans are always going to suffer. The unit also shown is the largest 2 bedroom unit available. I hope other units offer better plans.
Just my 2 cents… maybe 3.
CG,
The evidence is in the marketplace – what people want to buy and have bought, and what’s been built recently.
A 10 x 10 second bedroom is not out of the norm in new construction these days. You’re just flat-out wrong about this. And, unlike many recent projects, the second bedroom here has windows on two sides and is an actual bedroom rather than a space within the unit itself.
I’m curious what your interest is here, since you’re new here and your approach seems a bit off the wall. You don’t come across to me as an actual buyer, but as someone who has another agenda to play out. Enlighten us as to that agenda, please.
Joe,
The evidence may be in the market place, but from my experience it is not what people want to buy. If all the developers supply 10×10 2nd bedrooms, then of course this is what they will buy.
I take offense on you telling me I am flat out wrong. You should really be more considerate and a little more willing to hear a different side of the story. The 2nd bedroom here may have windows in 2 sides (takes away from usable wall space and dictates where you place furniture), but it also blocks the view of the kitchen to the exterior. Why so many windows in the 2nd bedroom if it’s going to be seldom used? Just some counter points…
My interest here is that I was actually really looking forward to seeing these units here, and wanted to consider buying. I used to live in the area and enjoyed it a ton. Also my “agenda” is to explain how, in my opinion, developers continuously put out poor plans in order to max out how many units they can cram in.
I truly and surprised in how a staff member would react to a “new” person here and not hear out an opinion that disagrees and differs with theirs. I am not flat out wrong as you stated. I am an architect and the developers we get, albeit smaller ones, do not want 10×10 bedrooms because that is what buyers want, it is because it is the first thing to go when they want to maximize how many units they can put on a site. Isn’t this supposed to be a discussion forum? I still stand to my statement that the plans posted is poor, like many other new buildings, and these bedrooms, including the master, are too small.
Yes, developers are making bedrooms smaller to max out the number units per allowable FAR.
Yes, the units are selling anyway.
I’ve been reading YoChicago for about a year now, but have only commented a few times so decide for yourselves whether I’m “new” or not.
First of all, I think it’s overly simplistic to try to lump all projects or developers together on this issue. Some make small second bedrooms in order to maximize space in more often used rooms. Others are making small second bedrooms to maximize the number of units they can cram onto a floor.
If I had to guess (which by the way, we are all guessing), I would say this project is one of the former based on the location of the second bedroom within the unit. The only way to make it bigger would be to cut into the kitchen or the living room of the same unit.
That being said, I didn’t think CG had any sort of “agenda” based on his/her comment, just like I didn’t think aleks had an agenda when he/she criticized the layout at Lexington Park Lofts. I really like coming to this site to read these sorts of debates.
CG,
My concern about your agenda continues.
On your first post here you singled out a development for doing what the majority of developments of more than a few units are doing.
You stated you don’t know why developers offer bedrooms of this size – and in a later comment say you do know why, using very loaded terminology to explain their behavior.
I think anyone who’s seen enough floor plans for recent construction in larger buildings would agree with me that you’re flat-out wrong about this unit’s second bedroom size. It’s not small in comparison to what’s being offered out there.
I’m a bit surprised that an architect looks at a window as something that “takes away from usable wall space” rather than something that visually expands the space.
With a bit more investigation you’d see that I’m a bit more than a “staff member” here. My agenda, as a former developer and someone whose publication / Web site is supported by developers, is reacting to what seem to be unfair characterizations of developers’ efforts.
So – as an architect, are you representing any competitors of this development?
Joe,
Again you attempt to think the world out there had a hidden agenda. I really don’t see what I have said or done to make you think I “have a hidden agenda”. Thanks you mike for saying I don’t.
Like I said, I was interested in this location because I used to live in that area and would love to move back. That area does not have much in the way of “boutique”.
I know exactly why developers do what they do. When I said I don’t know why they do in my first post it more in the sense of frustration with them. A bit of sarcasm if you will…
Again with your flat-out wrong statements… why use such absolutes when things are so subjective? We are talking about architecture not mathematics. I am not flat-out wrong, and I would think most architect would agree that a 10×10 is the bare minimum size that would work for a 2nd bedroom. The 13-6 living/dining room area is bare minimum too. keep in mind, I’m not talking about the smallest two bedroom unit, this is the largest.
Why would you be surprised that an architect would be concerned about usable floor space? Does a window “visually expand a space”. Sometimes yes. In this case I don’t think it does. The one window is near the entrance which would seldom be seen unless you are walking out. The other window yes, maybe it does expand the room visually. i’d much rather have a bedroom (or den) with borrowed light and have the kitchen and great room with the window access to create a much larger space. The 2nd bedroom is hardly used, why waste window space?
Joe, I know exactly who you are. As a former developer, you should really drop the developer attitude and try and look at things objectively. I know plenty of real estate writers (some whom have worked for you in the past). As someone that is “more” than a staff member, you should try and carry yourself in a more professional manner. There is nothing that I’ve said about this project that I wouldn’t say to any of our clients in person. Will this change their minds? No, the bottom line is dollars (for most). You would think that my post was an outright dirty critique of the building with comments like “unfair characterizations”. Everything I have said is more than fair and is completely my opinion, which some have already disagreed with me in a constructive way. I actually like the exterior (hope the glass is less green in reality).
So – as an architect I represent a critical eye. I’m sure I can find faults with any plans I look at. No building is perfect. My job is to make sure the buildings I work on are as good as they can get and built as well as they can be. If it’s next door to this (which none of my projects are) or on the other side of town (which most of my projects are) or in other towns (which some of my projects are).
Sorry… no conspiracy here. (sorry so long)
CG,
You apparently missed my question as to whether any of your developer clients compete with this project. And yes, I know that you know a writer who freelanced for my company, though I don’t recall ever meeting her personally.
I’ll stand by my position that your calling the bedroom “tiny” is an unfair characterization of what’s at or above a median size second bedroom in new construction of this type today.
Other architects with an equally critical eye have taken a position that differs from yours.
Back in the 80s a very well-known Chicago architect adopted a philosophical stance that secondary bedrooms in family residences should be barely large enough for a bed to encourage socialization among family members. His personal residence had childrens’ bedrooms that wouldn’t come near meeting your bedroom standards.
You really should drop the architect attitude and hold open the possibility that the developer attitude is often more objective on these matters, since the developer has more at stake in determining whether the product meets buyers’ needs.
Well, I’ll jump in here. I lurk a lot, and post almost never, but I am the owner of a fairly new construction condo and I must say that I’m with CG on this.
Yes, we bought a unit with rather small second and third bedrooms, but that’s because almost all new construction that we could afford featured rooms of that size. I would love to have a bit tinier “great room” and a bit larger bedroom number two, but we based our purchase decision on many different factors, and ended up with rather small bedrooms number two and three.
I don’t want to argue with anyone here. I just wanted to gently suggest that condo sales don’t necessarily reflect enthusiastic endorsements of every detail of current construction styles.
To answer any lingering questions (which I answered in a round about way) I have absolutely nothing to do with any competitors of this building or the developers building it. I mainly work on single-family homes and smaller condo buildings.
If you stand by your position and you state an argument for your case I can respect that. I stand by opinion that for the largest of a two bedroom units I think these rooms are small. Neither of us are flat out wrong.
If I have come off with an “attitude” then I apologize, I get defensive when people tell me my opinions are (flat out) wrong. I only bring up my profession to explain my argument and my experience nothing more.
I hope in the future, if I post anymore, that we can have discussion about peoples opinions. If I have come off with an “attitude” then I apologize, I get defensive when people tell me my opinions are wrong. I only bring up my profession to explain my argument, nothing more.
Honestly, I believe the Architect and Developer need to work closely together in putting a product out there that people want. If it is once sided the product will most likely fail.
This site could be something great for Chicago if it were a more open forum and we are not so quickly discredited for saying something that disagrees with the developers or those who run this site. Architecture, like art, is very (I stress very) objectionable and everyone has a different perspective on it.
No ones opinion is wrong…
ps. I agree with Cynthia’s post (see last paragrapgh).
CG,
There’z nothing wrong with having an attitude, and no need to apologize for it. Attitude is a good thing, and strongly opposing attitudes are even better.
I agree with CG in both his response to the building plan and his suggestion that Joe should maintain a more professional attitude as an objective member of the press. I’m a long time reader of YoChicago and honestly disappointed (though entertained!) to see this comment seemingly rattle the author of the article so much. At least that’s the impression I got. And I’m not an architect, developer, and have no connection with them whatsoever. I only clicked on this post and it’s comments as I’ve been curious when we’re going to get our grocery store back!
MJ,
I think you’ve got me confused with someone else.
I am not now and never have been an objective member of the press. I’m an opinionated partisan whose sympathies generally (though not always) favor developers, a group that’s often misunderstood and mischaracterized. I also have a strong aversion to the notion that journalism is a profession. I view it as a trade and a craft, somewhat akin to cabinetmaking but with more pretensions to social utility.
I hope you get back a better grocery store than the one you lost. I officed across the street from that Dominick’s for 5 years, and it was one of the worst in the city.
how bout that column in the corridor leading into the unit?! Love to move a couch into there!
As the developer of the project, I’m happy to shed some light on some of these issues. First of all, not all developers are the same. Just like accountants, lawyers, and architects, there are varying degrees of knowledge and ability within each respective profession. I think it is naive to claim, from your perspective GC, that you know what the market bears or what developers want, based on your experience with smaller developers. Each project is unique, and the floor plans are dictated by a plethora of constraints. For instance, this is an exceptionally long site at over 280 feet, and there were many challenges designing the building to conform with the needs of the commercial space, the structural elements, and the building code.
Our team, which consists of marketing people, interior designers, architects, owner’s representatives, and contractors, spend an enormous amount of time discussing floor plans. There is a balance that must be struck, however, between life safety issues, travel distances for escape routes, placements of windows to meet light and vent issues, etc, etc.
Without beating the subject to death, the least I can do is offer to sit down with anyone who would like an explanation of why something ended up being a certain way. There is rhyme and reason behind every design element, and I would welcome the opportunity to provide a factual rebuttal to anyone’s claims.
My email is jon@jfjdevelopment.com.
CG, I would be happy to provide you with the CAD drawing of this floorplan in an effort to better it. Maybe you can make a suggestion that our team could implement. Since you claim that “this site could be something great for Chicago if it were a more open forum,” I would like to provide you with an opportunity to prove your case.
I too agree that often times bedrooms can be too small. However, with that being said, I would choose the living/dining room combination of this plan any day over the more common 13′x18′ layout that produces a slightly larger 2nd bedroom. I feel 10′ is perfectly adequate and the idea of adding additional fenestration will open the space, especially when overlooking the terrace. My only change would be the entry closet. There is ample closet space, (which can be a rarity these days) but I would utilize the small closet in the master and mirror the door so it could become a coat closet in the entry. Eliminating the slightly larger closet in the entry would create a better view from the entry (I typically don’t like seeing closet doors as a first impression, and it could be substituted for artwork, personalization, etc) and furniture could maneuver much easier through the slightly narrow corridor that exists currently. Just a thought.
CG,
The reality for anyone other than the price-is-no-object custom single family buyer is that there are ALWAYS tradeoffs in what would otherwise be the ideal. Of course in a perfect world it would be great to have cavernous bedrooms, huge living areas, endless closets, huge artwalls AND floor-ceiling wall-wall windows. In the real world there are irreducable land and development costs that translate to a $/SF sales level that must be attained to make a project viable. A buyer has a maximum price that he/she is able to pay which translates to a unit size ceiling in a given development for which the buyer wants the maximum amount of usable space. In my 15 years of selling new construction real estate, my direct experience is that the OVERWHELMING majority of buyers prefer kitchen/living/dining space that allows for a dining table, gracious seating areas and a large tricked-out kitchen and are willing to live with smaller bedrooms as long as king beds are in the master and queens are in the guest bedroom.
I heard that the grocery store will now be a Roundy’s, not a Dominicks. As a native of Minnesota, where there are lots of Roundy’s, I can tell you that we’d rather have a Dominick’s!
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