Comments on: The Two Joes drive 63rd Street into Woodlawn

By: SheridanB

SheridanB — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:57:07 +0000

Isn’t that the church that got the el torn down? I think that there’s even more there than just warehousing the lots. Wouldn’t that be interesting if they were holding the lots for somebody….

By: Joe Zekas

Joe Zekas — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:38:31 +0000

It’s been a common dodge in Chicago to warehouse property off the tax rolls by transferring title to a church. Odds are there’s a real owner behind the nominal owner.

By: Tre

Tre — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 17:44:58 +0000

I live on the street you drove down with speedbumps (Ellis). The interesting thing about the empty lots on Ellis is that they are owned by people who live on the block. They are just holding the properties and taking just enough care of them instead of fencing and manicuring as needed. Also a majority of the lots are 63rd east of cottage are owned by a church. Anybody know why one would hold onto empty lots for so long?

By: the urban politician

the urban politician — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:48:13 +0000

Well, I DO care about the south side of Chicago.

The problem is, it’s hard to care about something that continues to yield disappointment after disappointment. From your tours down there I have sensed the same tone from you.

Dearborn Park is a different story–I neither think it has potential nor do I care about it, I really find it to be obnoxiously devoid of merit as a development. But lets not get back into that..

By: Joe Zekas

Joe Zekas — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 02:21:41 +0000

tup,

You’re on a roll recently. First Dearborn Park should be torn down. Next the entire south side of Chicago is not worth caring about. The place where more than a million people live – “not worth caring about.”

By: the urban politician

the urban politician — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 01:48:31 +0000

I think you all are missing the larger point:

The south side of Chicago is more or less a hell-hole not worth caring about.

The most recent evidence of that is just how much the planned Metropolis development in Bronzeville was butchered into what could be best described as a worthless strip center. This is especially disappointing because a lot of us were excited about a fairly well-designed, neighborhood-defining development going up in a part of town that showed faint glimmers of hope for the future.

Well, that’s down the drain. When you allow such trash (new renderings posted by Spyguy at Skyscraperpage) to get built, its your way of saying “we give up on this place” The city cannot gain any headway in that part of town, and frankly I’m not patient (or young) enough to wait another half century for a neighborhood worth caring about to eventually emerge down there.

Give up and move on.

By: daveydoo

daveydoo — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:49:04 +0000

I have to go with IrishPirate & SheridanB on this one. I remember taking the line (which was called the Howard-Jackson Park line at the time) all the way to the end when I was a college freshman. At that time it terminated at University Avenue. I was on my way to Promontory Point and probably thought it would be a shorter walk than it was. I think I had an out-of-date AAA map which showed the el ending at Stony Island. I recall 63rd St. being much more intact than what is shown on this video. There were certainly plenty of empty lots west of Washington Park, but 63rd St. wasn’t nearly this desolate. At the same time, this was 20 years ago so my memory could be a little fuzzy.

By: SheridanB

SheridanB — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:15:04 +0000

Anecdotally; my dad was trapped downtown in the 60s during the riot era (not sure when exactly) and couldn’t get a bus or train back to Hyde Park and cabs refused due to “riots” going on there. He called up my mother who told him that there was nothing going on. I suspect a lot of it was perception in the whiter areas of town.

63rd Street was reasonably busy and relatively dense up until the mid-80s at least, I’d say (if not exactly prosperous). I think Daley has pushed a lot of demolition that hasn’t really been necessary. I still remember the big ballrooms that used to be on Cottage and King drive back them. It had a much more urban feeling than it does now. There used to be mid-rises at 63rd and the IC tracks along with several potentially useful hotels along Stony Island, but all that’s gone now.

By: Levois

Levois — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 05:20:21 +0000

There are some single family homes closer to Brazier’s church. I almost wonder how they’re doing as far as sales.

By: IrishPirate

IrishPirate — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 04:51:36 +0000

Taking out a one mile stretch of EL from Cottage Grove to Stony Island was criminally stupid. That might be understating the case.

I seem to recall talk of the darkness and noise caused by the EL as being some horrible negative with no redeeming benefits.

I guess it’s also a negative for all the hoods from Armitage to the City border with Evanston.

There should be an EL line running roughly parallel to the lakefront from South Shore to downtown. It could be done and would be a great boon to housing development and business.

In the roughly 50 year history of “The Woodlawn Organization” this was possibly their worst moment in a series of “worst moments”.

I still don’t understand why Bishop Brazier opposed having the EL there. Perhaps he felt that a revitalized EL line might bring development that his organization couldn’t control or benefit from.

If that portion of that neighborhood has lost 80 percent of its population in 50 years perhaps it’s time for a change in thinking.