Comment of the day: Amidst all the noise…
Posted 4/14/2008 by Joseph Askins"The eastern end of Pilsen does seem to be "gentrifying" at a decent or indecent pace depending on your point of view. As for the western end the change seems much slower. I'd have to go down to Cullerton and Sangamon to get a better idea of what is happening right around there, as I don't recall being there for years. I'll put it on my biking agenda for warmer weather. The best way I know to see lotsa hoods is by bike. Generally, better retail and restaurants follow new residents into a hood. The only exception I can think of is the "west loop" where fine restaurants largely preceded new residents and acted as a "draw".
The "good or evil" of gentrification generally takes decades to fully occur. Lincoln Park starting "taking off" in the late 60's or so and even twenty years later there was residual gang crap going on. Lakeview experienced the same basic phenomena only a 1/2 decade or decade later.
Wicker Park, Bucktown, Uptown etc still have serious issues with crime, gangs, and in Uptown's case retail also. That doesn't mean they aren't improving.
The idea that neighborhoods change overnight is largely wrong. Whatever is happening at Sangamon and Cullerton will take decades to unfold.
I'll check back in 2028 and see how things look."
- IrishPirate, keeping a cool head in this weekend's hottest thread. We still haven't been able to track down a building permit or MLS listing for that building, by the way.
Comments
4/14/08
Carter said:
Changing "overnight" is a straw man argument and a preposterous standard, of course.
When I walk down a street within a mile of me & see a building that went up before I even saw the foundation poured (not too often, but it does happen), I might use the phrase "that building went up overnight," but obviously that is a figure of speech.
I'd imagine people saying a neighborhood changed overnight more likely mean in 3 - 5 years, which can feel like overnight as very few people are walking every last block in their neighborhood regularly.
Dmac said:
As much as I loathe Starbuck's, I have to admit that they've done a fairly decent job at identifying 'hoods that are past the initial discovery phase, and are on the brink of rapid redevelopment. I witnessed this firsthand with the locations here on Roscoe (circa late 90's) and also with the one on Lincoln (close to the three - corner intersection w/Ashland). They both do a whopping business, but also closed down three independent shops shortly after they opened.
4/15/08
Carter said:
To me that's more or less just typical chain store predatory behavior.
It's not good for the City as a whole to have these out of town giant corporations killing our homegrown business, just see the Andersonville Chamber of Commerce study about how local businesses keep money circulating in the local economy.
I will give Starbucks some credit for being a little tasteful as the years have gone by, and they've done a better job of assimilating their stores into the neighborhoods - the one at Belmont & Leavitt likely saved the building, with its unique Schlitz tied-house facade.
Dmac said:
The location on Roscoe was also suited to the neighborhood, it was built in an old building as well. But it should be mentioned that the dreaded NIMBY's were primarily responsible for that development, as there are restrictions enacted here by the neighborhood assn.
We don't have anything currently that deals with mountain lions on the loose, however. I heard the shots being fired last night - thought it was an old gang dispute from the days of the Latin Kings vs. the Insane Unknowns.
Carter said:
You realize the Insane Unknowns are/were a faction of the Latin Kings, right?
Dmac said:
Yeah, but many gangs have intra - mural quarrels all the time. Refer to Jeff Forte's old gang going at it once he was sent off to prison (but was still controlling the Blackstone Rangers from his cell). Not pretty.
Carter said:
The last Insane Unknown graffiti I saw was in maybe 97 or 98, when I suspect they had pushed into Vice Lord turf surrounding Lathrop.
The ironic thing about gangs is that it's often safer in areas dominated by one strong one, it's when they're fighting rival gangs that the bullets are flying.
I hadn't heard of the fight you're describing, were the IU making a break from the larger LK organization? Where was the fighting occurring?
Dmac said:
I have no idea, but the war of tagging between the two factions was all over the neighborhood here, back when I moved in (late '97). In subsequent incidents our building was tagged, re - tagged and then tagged again by each gang's insignia. We stopped bothering to paint it over, since it just encouraged more of the same. The homes on the surrounding blocks had either tag on their garage doors, and when I asked an officer from the local precinct what was going on, he let me in on the situation. I think there was some nasty stuff that went on near the Lane Tech campus during that time.
I haven't seen anything on buildings in quite awhile at this point, but someone from the Kings left a nice tag on the front hood of my Nissan about 2 years ago. He used a nail, and cut quite deeply in order to make sure the impression took. Nice to know that they're still around.
6/24/08
Evie's Granddaughter said:
Carter and Dmac - How exactly does a retailer act "preditor[ily]"? I don't care for Starbuck's either, and only go in there if it is the "only game in town". But, I don't believe they "kill" other businesses. I believe the customer base for the local or mom & pop type spaces abandon's them. If you have no customers, then you have no business. If your customers are so fickle that they will immediately flit across the street to the newest big thing, then what chance do you have? Customer loyalty is the only thing that can keep small businesses alive in a market where a big business with a huge marketing budget wants to do business. There ought to be room for both.