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Centrum cancels Lofts at Lakeview Collection

Posted 3/24/2008 by Joseph Askins

Lofts at Lakeview Collection, 3126 N Ashland Ave

Not too long ago, a Yo reader used our tip line to request an update on three North Side loft projects. I'm still tracking down info on two of those developments, but I finally got someone to confirm that the Lofts at Lakeview Collection has bitten the dust.

The project's former sales manager, Carrie McCormick, said today that the lofts are indeed dead. I'm still trying to reach Centrum Properties' Nick Stocking to find out when and why the company canceled the Hirsch Associates-designed mid-rise at the intersection of Belmont, Ashland and Lincoln avenues; I'll let you know if I hear anything more about this decision.

Around 30 percent of the building's 131 one- and two-bedroom condominiums had sold as of last July, and David Barton Gym was lined up to fill one of the building's 14 retail spaces. Prices for the loft-style homes ranged from the $300s to the mid-$700s.

Centrum had planned to start construction in September 2007 by demolishing LaSalle Bank's Lake View branch at 3201 N Ashland Ave. Deliveries were supposed to begin in the summer of 2009.

As Kate Hawley wrote back in August, this part of Lake View has its fair share of stores, restaurants and other neighborhood amenities - what kept folks from buying at Centrum's project? Were the prices unreasonable? Do people simply not want to live at the intersection of three arteries? Where did the Lofts at Lakeview Collection go wrong?

Comments

3/24/08

Local Realtor said:

OMG this is one of the most shocking real-estate stories I've come across! I went to the Brokers Preview of this project last year and was extremely impressed by the unique designs, forward-thinking architecture and neighborhood sensitivity exhibited by this project's developers.
This is clearly a casualty of the current "housing crisis." A few years ago, in better days, this would have been sold-out in a heartbeat.
What a shame!
P.S. Does anyone know what's going on with the "Lincoln Lofts" building across the street from this building?

Joe Zekas said:

Other loft projects established the viability of the location long ago.

My off-the-cuff reaction is that the project didn't "go wrong," the market did.

IrishPirate said:

Methinks it is likely the market too.

This seemed to be a well designed development.

It's likely the developer decided to avoid the risk of bringing it out of the ground and then finding very slow sales. Probably a good judgement. When the market improves it can always be built then.

The foreclosure on the new building on Fullerton and Ashland comes to mind.

I'm amazed at how many developments, many smaller than this, are still breaking ground or have broken ground recently.

Methinks it is better to wait. Few will time the market recovery perfectly, but better an imperfect decision in a rising market, than a risky decision in a down market.

There are some other properties on main streets in the Lincoln Park/Lakeview areas that seem to have halted sales and development also.

Sir Isaac Newton said:

Obviously, the declining market had a big part to play in this development's demise….but it certainly does not explain it all. If in fact prices were starting in the $300,000s, then these lofts were WAY overpriced.

Doing a quick MLS search, I'm seeing 33 TWO-bedroom condos in Lakeview going for less than $300,000 (five of which are going for even less than $250,000). While these condos aren't new construction, most of them have nice, recently updated interiors with granite counterops, stainless steel appliances, etc. And most of them are in a little bit more ideal location too. While Ashland/Belmont/Lincoln is not a bad area, I do think that Lakeview is a little bit nicer (and has more restaurants/bars/shops) when you go a little further east. And prices went up to the mid $700,000s for the most expensive units, which were only 2-bedrooms? There are some decent townhomes in Lakeview on the market, in the mid $400,000s!

Long story short, the prices at this development were absurdly high…they probably would have gotten away with that a few years ago, when buyers would have assumed that it would be worth the price as they would see the prices appreciate to a much more ridiculous level than what they were already buying at, but there's no way that would work right now.

Local Realtor said:

Mr. Newton - there was a lot of sizzle along with the steaks in this building! Have you seen the model units? They feature very original use of space and materials, and the uniqueness and boldness of design compensated for the "small" number of rooms as a way of measuring price point.

Stokes said:

I assume that Centrum's loan to build The Lofts at Roosevelt Collection, currently under construction and up to about the 5 or 6th floor (rising high above Target's 3 story parking garage where you get a great view!) would be the reason for shelving Lakeview Collection. How many construction loans to build condos can one developer take out in this market?!

Also, I find it no suprise that this project got tabled. I call it the 6 Corner Curse! Any intersection where 3 streets or more come together creates terriblly inefficient building layouts and nobody wants to live on these high trafficked intersections! (i.e. Ashton Lofts).

Dmac said:

As Joe said, the other condo developments in that corridor established the site as quite worthwhile. A friend bought on spec a unit in one of the first buildings to go up in that area (across from the Whole Foods), and I thought she was nuts. The joke was on me, since she sold it less than 5 years later at double what she orinally paid for the unit.

Dmac said:

Whoops, meant to write "originally."

Joe Zekas said:

This is pure speculation on my part, but I'm more inclined to believe that the retail took the project down (if in fact it is down) rather than the residential component.

The immediate area has been extremely slow to attract retailers of the quality one would expect given the area's purchasing power. It just never took off and gave no signs of doing so. There are many factors that can account for what we see - lots of retail vacancies in the area - and I won't belabor them.

Centrum probably needed some very strong anchors paying very high rents to make the project work and simply wasn't able to attract them. Without the retailers the economics of the overall project would get very dicey.

If the project had worked on the economics of the lofts alone, it would have likely succeeded even in this market.

3/25/08

Local Realtor said:

And to think that, once upon a time, L/B/A was a "major" shopping destination, with the then-popular Goldblatt's, Woolworth's and Wieboldt's stores as anchors…all are now condos!

Dmac said:

The lack of public parking lots could be a factor in the slow pace of retail development there.

IrishPirate said:

Well one thing this development would have brought to that neighborhood is PEOPLE.

That is the NIMBY's main foe: added density. With PEOPLE you might have seen a few more thriving local businesses.

Part of the problem in that neighborhood is a large number of single story storefronts. Tear em' down and put some housing units above.

Also the city code that requires retail or office space in many developments on main streets should be reconsidered. Forcing developers to build storefronts in a neighborhood with a huge number of vacancies makes little sense.

It's possible to build living units that give the general appearance of retail. In some spots you will see older buildings that had retail on the ground floor that has been converted to housing. The old notions of a small grocer and/or tavern on nearly every block not longer work.

Sir Isaac Newton said:

Local Realtor,

I never visited the sales office, but from what it sounds like, there was a lot of "sizzle along with the steaks" with this development. But should that translate into an almost 50% premium, in terms of the sales price? Probably not….maybe 10% or even 20%, but I wouldn't say 50%.

Carter said:

Lincoln, Belmont and Ashland isn't dense?

apparently pirate's density in the cranium is the standard he sets for the city.

there are loads of thriving businesses in this area, it ain't 1981. there are nightclubs/bars, grocery and retail shopping, etc.

I'm not sure where these mom-n-pop shops of yesteryear are that pirate seems so obsessed with, however. I suspect he is once again confusing Avondale with Lake View, and I further suspect the whiskey is responsible.

maybe if I drank more I'd also be a "big government" yahoo like pirate, who yearns for the strong, masterful clenched fist of a Mayor Daley, who will come in the middle of the night, tearing down theses offensive structures and leaving giant holes in the shape of an X in their wake, later to be filled with overpriced concrete from companies owned by one of Hizzoner's Bridgeport buddies.

what this neighborhood needs if anything is the CTA to get its act together to help ease the gridlock, although $5 a gallon gas may help, of course.

but the Belmont bus seems to suffer from a fear of loneliness, which is why it usually appears in twos and threes. the Lincoln bus has always stunk, the Ashland is a bit better, and the majority of lifetime brown line riders I know don't buy for a second the argument that extending the platforms was a better idea that simply learning how to space the trains properly so they could run more frequently- the idea that it's unsafe to have trains running closer than several miles apart tells me many/most CTA employees at the upper-management level should be tested for hallucinogens.

wouldn't hurt to get bike lanes on Belmont, either, as well as issuing a shoot-to-kill order for people rollerblading in the street (how and where are these people raised that they think this is wise?).

and the local schools always could use upgrading, unless miracles have transpired in the past decade most of them are severely lacking in adequate sports, computer, musical and arts equipment/resources like their suburban peers.

Local Realtor said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the public schools closest to L/B/A (like Prescott and Barry) are "magnet" schools. And I think the closest public high for the nabe is Lane Tech, right? Of course there are a couple of good Catholic schools as well (St. Al's and St. Bonaventure) and St. Luke's Lutheran.

Joe Zekas said:

Carter,

Maybe if you drank more you wouldn't want to issue shoot to kill orders against rollerbladers.

Carter said:

Rollerbladers IN THE STREET, you mean, which is not many of them, but it only takes a few to really screw up traffic, as that wide sweeping motion makes cars terrified to pass them up.

Do you support cars driving on the sidewalk? That would be equally obnoxious.

Look, is this that hard for people to comprehend? If you want this high-density city, people can't do the same things they are apparently used to do in their little cul-de-sacs in the burbs. Streets are for cars and bicycles, not joggers and rollerbladers, and v.v.

LR, magnet schools are great, but they can't serve everyone - CPS needs to raise the bar across the board. People still bail from the City for better schools, Lake View is no exception, it may be better than other areas, but the people living there have higher expectations than in other areas.

Joe Zekas said:

Carter,

I've been slowed down by the rollerbladers on Belmont many a day. It never bothered me.

The momentum these guys develop, coupled with their mass, could be deadly to an older person or a kid on the sidewalk in any collision. I'd rather be inconvenienced a bit in my car when I consider the alternative.

IrishPirate said:

I see Carter is trying to be amusing. Keep trying. Like Hillary Clinton you remember what you want to and took sniper fire while at Belmont/Ashland/Lincoln(Bosnia).

I'm not mistaking Lakeview for Avondale. Take a walk down Racine sometime and count the older buildings where retail has been turned into living space. Do the same thing on numerous other local streets. Perhaps you are not wise enough to be able to spot them.

I am well aware with the business climate around Ashland and Belmont. Overall it is good, but there still is a surplus of smaller empty retail space nearby.

As for your rant about rollerbladers I hear some motorists say the same thing about bikes. Now personally I think "bladers" should stay on side streets because they annoy me and if I had my way gas would be 10 bucks a gallon.

Lakeview has a smaller population now that it did in the past. More cars do not necessarily equate with more people, but Carter can't comprehend that. Just like he doesn't understand the benefit of 8 car trains on the Brown Line.

He sees a world that never existed and then hopes for a world that cannot and probably should not exist.

Yep, I want more housing units in Lakeview. I also would like to see more in Lincoln Park and Uptown. Particularly in areas near the EL stops.

Density means more shops, more money spent, more people taking the train, more sales and property taxes and hopefully even lower property taxes for Carter. He loves to rant about his taxes, but fails to see that a real increase in people living in the city would result in lower relative taxes.

As for "Da Mare" anyone who has read what I post knows that I feel the man is an "unindicted co-conspirator" in fleecing the taxpayers. Carter reads but like our President seems unable to comprehend. Try reading slower next time and having a dictionary at hand. Perhaps if you move your lips while reading you will have better luck.

At heart Carter you are a NIMBY and my view of NIMBYS is less kind than your view of rollerbladers. Which reminds me of a prayer:

Lord, Save Us From Those Who Would Save Us.

Save Us From Those With Teeny Minds.

Save Us From Those Who Claim To Love The City

Yet Hate Density.

Lord, Banish Them to A Place Where Only

Rollerbladers exist and the nearest train is

a ten minute drive.

Smite them Oh Lord and Show Them Your Big Old

Testament Fangs and Forgot The Whole "Golden

Rule" thang your son mistakenly talked about.

Save Us Oh Lord and With Your Intercession We

Shall Become a Better City.

Praise Be to God.

3/26/08

Carter said:

pirate's knowledge of the City seems roughly parallel to the old adage "jack of all trades, master of none." population (particularly of working adults, it's families/kids fleeing the city) has been going up, just like our taxes. anyone who thinks taxes are going down any time in our future has been drinking the TIF kool aid.

Next.

Joe, perhaps I wasn't clear - rollerblades don't belong on the sidewalk either. I'd bet they aren't legally permitted on either.

gridlock is a big, big deal. people I know who leave the city site "not being able to get around" and the stress of traffic, commute times/aggravation right up there with the schools. strangely, people in this town seem to just be resigned to the taxes, it's the retiree crowd that usually gets broken by those.

getting people out of their cars, where they might in fact shop at the phantom businesses on Racine pirate enjoys waxing nostalgic for (I'm not sure old bars like "The Beartrap" at Racine and George really count as retail), would be very, very good for the city. it would also be very, very good for people in the business of selling the City as a place to live and raise a family.

for that to happen, people need to be able to get around, and people just need to follow the rules of the road. I drive, I bike, I take the bus, train, etc. Many cyclists could use a smack upside the head, they should enforce the no cell-phone while driving rule, etc.

But our mayor seems to think traffic problems end once you hit the north side, they've been blabbering about Fullerton, Damen and Elston for decades, pimping high price ideas like underpasses, etc., and all they really need is one beat cop during rush hour and Sat afternoons to go out and there and smack cars with a baton that block the intersections (or to at least write tickets).

unfortunately, cops are out there filling their quotas on permit parking abuses (even when there are plenty of spots on the street) and other goofy things.

it all starts at the top - and the delusion of the "we just need more people!" is just that, more people not demanding change just gets more of the same problems we have now.

Carter said:

back to basics, the video linked here is very helpful for people who don't understand the global nature of financing:

Dominos:
How Bear Stearns default threatens the entire world financial system

IrishPirate said:

Poor Carter, to be able to read and not comprehend must be painful.

As for my initial comment on Racine it was meant to point out that old retail space can be used for housing. If you can't see the buildings that at one time had retail and now have housing in that space then you are "silly silly silly".

If you don't realize there is a plethora of vacant retail and office space in parts of "Lake View" I suggest you focus on the storefronts on Belmont and not on hitting rollerbladers.

The past two nights Frontline had a special called "Bush's War". Perhaps YoChicago can have a special called "Carter's War". You can talk about taxes, and old "Lake View", rollerbladers, the Brown Line, TIFS(for this Joravasky from the Reader will appear)the disappearance of the working class, bad schools, and how working adults moving into the city is horrible. Then at the end of the show you can break out in hives and have a mental breakdown.

Meanwhile those of us who exist in reality land will take a collection and send you off to the RiverView Tavern on Damen so you can look at photos of Old Lake View and surrounding hoods.

You really should be elected Super Nimby Alderman at Large. That way you can attack anything and everything that signifies change. Both good change and bad change. Then you can outlaw Foie Gras again and plastic baggies.

May God Save the City of Chicago from little minds.

Carter said:

zzzzzzzzzz.

IrishPirate said:

Still tired after running over those rollerbladers, huh?

4/15/08

Lincoln Loft Resident said:

Getting back to living in the Belmont/Lincoln/Ashland area, I am an original buyer of a unit in the Lincoln Lofts building. It is the former Goldblatts. We have been there about 11 years now and have seen tremendous change. It's not like Southport in activity but that's fine. Our storefronts are filled. I shuddered thinking about the Centrum development going in. The congestion in this area is already horrific. I can't imagine adding 300 more residents with cars to the corner of Ashland and Belmont. I believe the plans called for underground parking but the residents would still have to get home. If you've tried getting through this area anytime in the afternoon you will know that there are enough people going into and out of the area. A bike lane on Belmont? Not a good idea, think about that. What has hurt our neighborhood, particularly our immediate area is the lack of money coming back. We have been promised TIF money for streetscaping and recently it was announced that Mr. Matlak our former Alderman had not included monies for any of us South of Belmont. I don't know the details but I know something happened during his Aldermanic administration. I still have the architectural proposal of the streetscape. He was very lenient with developers and didn't show much concern for aesthetics. Our sidewalks are cracking and we actually had one break through to the vault underneath. Someone could have been seriously hurt and it took weeks to get repaired. There is a vault that runs the corner of Belmont/Lincoln under the sidewalk and someday soon there will be an accident. Lack of public parking? Yes, there's an issue. Mr. Matlak allowed the development of Apartments at Belmont and Greenview which gobbled up more than half of that lot. I look out my windows and see that the storefronts have changed but the general look of the neighborhood is still neglected. There is also another person that is a problem and he still owns quite a bit of property in the area and is known as our local "slum lord" as his properties have the look of neglect. Take a drive down Greenview past Fletcher and you will see the back of RESALE BARGAINS. That shop hasn't been there in ten years, yet he doesn't bother slapping some paint up. I find the cancellation of Centrum to be good for the area. We don't need another bank, but, we don't need another 300 condos either.

Carter said:

"A bike lane on Belmont? Not a good idea, think about that."

Think about what? Belmont is a 2 lane street with plenty of room for bike lanes, what's the problem?

The congestion you speak of is partially caused by so many drivers who try and pass traffic on the right at intersections in right turn lanes only to find out that they physically aren't in a lane and come grinding to a halt when the buses stop and the street narrows, etc.

Passing on the right when a lane isn't officially marked is illegal - think about that.

4/17/08

Lincoln Loft Resident said:

Carter: Have you been at the intersection lately? The reasons for the congestion that you speak of are exactly the reasons that I don't think it would be safe for bikes. The city has restricted parking at certain times opening up the street but people still park causing lanes to narrow and traffic to merge.

My statement was one of concern not to be insulting like, "THINK about THAT". I share Lincoln Avenue every day (on my to work) with bike riders and ride a Vespa in the summer. I usually come home on Belmont every day. I see people turning right in front of stopped busses nearly everyday. (illegal, ticketed? no) If they have no respect for a CTA bus, I doubt they would respect a biker. I do have a bike and ride it on weekends but I take a side street toward the lake when I'm going that direction.

I would just be happy if the project is cancelled. I really don't want to see St. Lukes build their building either but I understand the needs of the community.

I'm not sure if the St. Luke's assisted living building will be shelved also but the plans to develop that entire parcel were just too much.

5/12/08

Lincoln Lofts Resident said:

I'm really confused now. It looks as if LaSalle has moved out of the building and construction fencing is going up in the parking lot. Does anyone have an update???

Joseph Askins said:

We answered your question two days after this post went up, Lincoln Lofts Resident. The project is going rental.

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