Comments ( 8 )

• Jim’s a true professional and that’s a nice house… I would bet it was done right, something the video can’t really show. And I’m sure he likes that area of Bucktown just fine. But if money is no object, I’d venture to say it’s far from the “premier” area of Bucktown. If you can’t afford what you want on North Winchester or North Wolcott between Cortland and North… than one may consider this spot if you really want to be in Bucktown.

  Calling this the premier area of Bucktown is like me calling my northern edge of Ravenswood the premier neighborhood of Lincoln Square because I live here. I love my location (better than most anywhere in Lake View even for example), but from the re-sale prices it ain’t the premier spot according to the market.

  I’ve never lived in that spot of Bucktown, but frequent it often with friends living near the park and working with clients etc… That park gets bonkers with families, neighborhood folks. It’s really active.

  I’m sure a yard would be nice with kids (although, people raise kids in high-rise condos too) and the schools are probably an issue. There are a couple really great magnets near by in Drummond and LaSalle schools… and most families I’ve come across in Bucktown in this bracket send their kids to private if not in one of the the magnets.

• Eric,

  As you suggest, what might be premier for one group of people might be subpar for another, and so on. Jim pretty obviously likes the area, and you’ll see more on that in a later video.

  We actually went over to Pulaski School, which is just a few doors from Jim’s home, and shot some video there. Although Jim’s older daughter is at LaSalle and the younger one is pre-school, he spoke well of Pulaski’s potential in light of some recent developments, and mentioned its past poor test scores.

  The school has a new principal, substantial funding for improvements, and a new international program that’s neighborhood-based. I’ve seen situations where half a dozen parents with kids in the same grade have made a substantial difference in a school, especially if the administration is talented. There are certainly enough kids of affluent families in the immediate area if the parents decide to take the school on as a project.

  One of the things I liked about the home was that it would be a fun place for a single or young couple, but also works well for a family. Someone thinking about kids down the road might be comfortable staying when the kids arrive if they have a strong neighborhood K-8 school a few doors away.

• Sorry Joe, I see the statement on the video as definitive.
  If Holstein park is the only criteria used, then maybe it’s now the premier area, but…sill not premier by most interested in Bucktown. Nope.

  Anywho,
  Local parents can change a school…but it ain’t by hope as you know. I’m just getting into this book written by the parents and principal of Nettlehorst school.

  As you know Joe, I’m not a “do good Liberal” trying to change the world, but…
  Our oldest goes to our “non-buzz” neighborhood pre-school a half block away and its been terrific. I’ve started getting involved by parenting field trips and working with the teachers (tomorrow we field trip to the fire station). Next step will be a meeting with the principal.

  The pre-schools can be good, but test scores and kids’ behavior in upper grades of most community schools are not good. We’re giving our community school an effort as the neighborhood has too many resources and good people not to improve the school. The Pre-K program has been really great and there is no reason this can’t continue first grade and beyond.

  The parents on our block and near-by streets who make our income and better (based on their homes, jobs and families I know personally) send their kids to private schools. The lower income families on our block mostly send their kids to the community school. However, there is a small group of (relative) higher income parents in the neighborhood making a run at it in our community pre-school. I will see how all the parents respond to activities to improve things.

  With the truly wonderful resources we have in our neighborhood, the taxes paid, the cost of my house etc… I can not accept NOT sending my kid to this attractive school in a park setting because of a public school stigma. Unacceptable. We have to change the performance of the school.

  It’s hard not to give your kid what you think is the best. So, even though too expensive, parents will choose the private school because they feel they are doing the right thing for their kids. Getting into magnet schools and top ranked community schools is very difficult, the odds very low unless connected (and yes, I’ve seen connected folk get their kids into crowed Bell in Northcenter school when they were not in district).

  There are also religious reasons to go private. We may end up in private Catholic after pre-school, but my opinion is the private Catholic option is less about religion for most Catholic parents than good school preformance and community we desire for our kids. Again, this is because they/we don’t feel the community school will deliver performance or community, so they just don’t go and/or eventually move to the suburbs.

  Parents are so psyched out, they won’t even give the good community or open enrollment public Pre-K schools a shot. If they don’t invest in the early grades, it makes it harder to have an improved school over-all.

  I am not suggesting that only upper income families can change a school. However, the demographics of my community school show that the majority is lower income “free lunch” , test scores are low and the parents in the $500K plus median price homes are taking a pass, I’m suggesting a better mix of parents’ partcipation from the neighborhood would at least help.

• Great conversation and thanks for the positive comments and detailed thoughts.

  In general, I’d like to comment on my ‘premier’ comment. Defining the word is of course relative to ones priorities (proximity to shops, foot traffic, new homes, full lots, etc) but the reason I collectively put this “quadrant” (Armitage to Fullerton and Damen to Western) into the ‘premier’ category was not based on the area homes values, size and proximity to North & Damen – the traditional barometer of premier. What makes this an area worth looking at in Bucktown is because of the eclectic housing stock (not torn down and new $1MM+ newer construction home) and the many small business spotted throughout (not high-end boutiques or Potbelly’s), eclectic demographics (I can’t really dive into that for fear of overstepping my realtor bounds) and I think it all revolves around what is becoming a strong community center and that is Holstein Park and the Friends of Holstein.

  The park was dominated by gangs not too long ago but now there is a real value it is offering to the community which cannot be found in any other part of Bucktown: Both my girls learned to swim in the Pool, a killer Valentine Days Dance with my daughters, Easter Egg hunt, Movies in the park, and incredible Circus performance and hugely successful Apple Pie contest thus raising the quadrant’s status to ‘premier’ in my mind in the sense of community offerings and neighbors. It is a hugely subjective comment.

  It is also beginning to evolve around Friends of Pulaski and the ‘new’ Pulaski CPS with their new principal and new IB program. As you said Eric, this community school can be successful if the parents get involved (which they now are) and if there is a leader with the vision to implement change within a community while servicing all of the residents within the school boundaries which is what is happening now.

  I didn’t mean it to sound so definitive– really more of an invitation to look beyond the North & Damen cardo decumanus and discover this section of Bucktown.

  It is worth a look!

• Thanks Jim,

  I have to give Joe and some of these quotes a hard time. Believe me, my business partner rolls his eyes when I talk about how nice my area is. I can get going pretty good. That said, as Realtors and sellers, we can’t overestimate the market response to our own locations. I just sold my previous home and bought a house just a few blocks away (right at Winnemac Park, which you of course know a little about).
  However, even though really checking myself, I over-estimated my property a little and quickly made the adjustment and sold pretty fast. I had my partner handle the showings and most of the sale so I was removed. I actually was going to go lower priced after coming on too high initially, but my wife wouldn’t let me!

• Location’s a funny thing, Eric, and very much a matter of individual taste. Ditto for real estate values.

  Back in the day I developed in areas of DePaul that many a Realtor rolled his and her eyes at. Two years later they were wishing they hadn’t. And I can remember mocking friends who were developing in what are now prime areas of Bucktown and Lake View.

  As you know, I traverse most of Chicago throughout the year, and talk to people who are in love with locations that most Realtors wouldn’t dream of getting out of their car in – if they even drove there in the first place.

  So give me a hard time. Been there repeatedly, and am quite comfortable with my judgments and misjudgments.

• Joe,
  Yes, my original point was debating the premeir statement, which I stand by that as a business person hired to advise and market homes.

  What about my anecdotal point that as Realtors and/or sellers, we have to be careful not to overestimate our location and properties when selling in this market because we love the area or home?

  I didn’t reference future development or real estate speculation which you’ve described above. My opinion is a buyer is not buying a pimped out home in this market on the hope the school will improve in 5 years. Those days are over. They are buying a finished home taking the here and now into account.

  My point above is not specific to this property or it’s asking price. I’m talking about letting our personal experience affect our asking price and assuming that’s the market’s perception of our home and location in general. We are in the business of setting the proper expectation for our clients after all. We can’t let our personal connection to a location and property cloud market reality.

  The first thing many potential clients do when we suggest a realistic price and improvements for their home is to start focusing on very minute details “they have” and “no one else does”. I was very guilty of this, but checked that rational quickly and moved on at market price.

• I didn’t respond to your point, Eric, because I thought it was obvious and indisputable. And, I couldn’t ken what it had to do with this post.

  I understand, from long experience of hearing the tales, how clients behave with Realtors. I also think I understand how Realtors behave with clients, especially when the Realtors are inexperienced and the market is in flux.

  If you want to continue the discussion, start with the Freakonomics take on Realtor incentives:

  The point has equal validity at the time of pricing the home as at the time of an offer.

  Move on from there to the very real and very common situation where the Realtor is ignorant of the relevant comps or incapable of judging which comps are relevant or simply trying to bully bullsh*t a client into making an easy buck for the Realtor.

  I also understand all the objections and all the potential consequences to a seller of my following point, so there’s no need for you to educate me on them – but feel free to expand on it for others. And, making a disclaimer similar to yours, I’m not in any way talking about this property or this seller.

  Some buyers buy on a perception of neighborhood appreciation over a long period of time. Some buyers fall in love with a home and disregard advice about its “true market value.” Some buyers are, to put it mildly, fools. And, some sellers, taking account of the existence of those buyers, take a shot at getting a price that may or may not happen.

  Real estate pricing, especially when it comes to single-family homes in the city, is speculative to an unknowable degree. Realtors should make their arguments. Clients should listen carefully and objectively – and then set their price. If the Realtor doesn’t like the price he or she can walk away. And, I also know that many do just that, for good reasons and bad ones.