“want to see more artists in Chicago? find a way to keep rents affordable. I don’t know if an acquisition-based property tax (coupled with a tax swap for the schools) is the answer, but as it stands this city is pricing out much of the culture that brought people (back) into it in the first place.”
– Carter, commenting on our post about BusinessWeek.com‘s list of top 10 cities for artists
ABA (acquisiton-based assessing) is the cornerstone to the reform program of TRAC – Tax Reform Action Coalition.
Until it is adopted – the 7% property assessment cap must pass the House and Senate. Many don’t realize this law is set to EXPIRE this year.
This morning (3/6) the House Democratic Caucus met to discuss how high to set the Expanded Homeownerd Exemption.
Visit trac-il.org for more information on how to slow property assessment increases.
You could also see the glass as half full: a lot of whiny no-talents get priced out into more hospitable, lower-priced suburbs where they’re more likely to be viewed as artists.
“want to see more artists in Chicago?” (sic)
Not really. When did artists become a protected group?
I think only one poster mentioned market dynamics in the original thread. Keep rents affordable? Silly Carter, market intervention is for kids. I never cease to be amazed at the central planning current that runs through these posts. Not enough artists for your liking? Introduce some rent controls, and your problem’s solved! Have those non-artistic, left-brain jerks subsidize rents in order to find a way (besides market forces, of course) to let the artists ply their trade. Of course, since there’s no intellectual cover charge to calling one’s self an artist, you’ll have to subsidize rents for everyone.
I have to get back to work, since no one’s subsidizing my mortgage.
Have any of you bitching about the cost of living in Chicago, lived in San Francisco, New York, or LA??? Chicago is a bargain compared to those cities.
I grew up in California, and moved here after spending 13 years in Seattle (and Portland). I left Seattle in 1999, because I simply couldn’t afford it.
I came to Chicago because there is no city in the country that can offer all of the culture and quality of life I can find here, for a price that isn’t unattainable.
Shut up, and be thankful for what we have.
Devyn’s not likely to point it out, so I will – he’s speaking as an artist.
Click on Devyn’s name in the comment above to view some of his dazzling photos of Chicago’s loop.
Thanks Joe… I am still a corporate whore to pay the mortgage, but the artist in me keeps growing.
“I came to Chicago because there is no city in the country that can offer all of the culture and quality of life I can find here, for a price that isn’t unattainable.
Shut up, and be thankful for what we have. ”
Or, you could try thanking those of us who have been producing the culture that YOU now are taking advantage of.
What kind of demented thinking is this that riddles these boards, where we need to be grateful that our city isn’t as screwed up as others? Take your self-loathing back to wherever you came from.
How about comparing us to Seattle or Portland, Devyn? I could care less how we “rate” compared to NYC, LA and SF.
“Silly Carter, market intervention is for kids. I never cease to be amazed at the central planning current that runs through these posts.”
Lord, yet another halfwit.
Why don’t you focus your ire on “central planning” tactics like the TIFs, which have been responsible for taxes escalating and rental units lost?
I’m guessing like most of your ilk you don’t have a clue about the corporate/developer welfare programs like these, but feel free to confirm that with more of your quasi-economic analysis.
“Thanks Joe… I am still a corporate whore to pay the mortgage, but the artist in me keeps growing.”
oh good grief, this is the entire point – you don’t need a culture to grow as an artist.
but you do need one to actually make a living at it.
Carter:
There’s nothing “quasi-” about my objection to central planning. You offered market intervention, however vaguely, as a solution to a perceived market failure. My objection stands.
Halfwit, eh? Do you often call people names when you meet them in person?
Carter… Sorry to hear about your undies getting in such a bundle.
“How about comparing us to Seattle or Portland, Devyn? I could care less how we “rate” compared to NYC, LA and SF.”
Compare Chicago to Seattle and Portland? They are so completely different. I wouldn’t make the comparison, since neither Seattle or Portland are considered World Cities. Chicago being an Alpha city along with NYC and LA makes for a much better apples to apples comparison than the apples to oranges comparison of Chicago to Seattle (an almost ran world city) or Portland.
That not withstanding, I left Seattle because it was too expensive. I left Portland because it was too small.
Don’t dismiss me as “silly” and I won’t respond in kind.
You said:
“There’s nothing “quasi-” about my objection to central planning. You offered market intervention, however vaguely, as a solution to a perceived market failure. My objection stands.”
It’s “quasi” because you are apparently completely clueless about the centralized planning/control of development via the TIF “slush funds” program.
I didn’t say there was a free market failure, what I said is Chicago’s housing is about as far from a free market environment as we are from the moon, and it’s not weighed in favor of subsidized housing for artists by any stretch of the imagination.
devyn:
“They are so completely different”
As is Chicago from NYC and Los Angeles.
I’d suggest you stop getting your ideas of what Chicago should be from magazines and websites and try listening to the people who have spent their lives here.
Carter:
The “silly” comment in that statement was part of the pop-culture reference I used to imply that market intervention is a bad thing (for kids, so to speak). Paraphrasing breakfast cereal commercials isn’t very witty, I guess. Hence the halfwit comment. Still, “ilk” felt unnecessarily pejorative as well, but maybe I’m just being sensitive. To be honest, I’ve always wanted an ilk. Maybe my ilk and I can get matching bowling shirts or something.
You did, and continue to do, imply market failure and subsequent market intervention. And again, my comment stands. Yes, I have my own opinion about your pet issue, to which you have on several occasions attempted to swing the conversation. Maybe you should get your own thread for that subject, which is clearly tangential to this one.
Carter: Ouch! Why so hostile?
I may not have grown up here, but after living here for eight years, this is my home. I left those other cities precisely for the quality of life I have achieved in Chicago. My life is vested here, and I do listen to those who were here before me.
And yes… Chicago is still a relative bargain.
You continue to miss my point, westy, or actually, perhaps it’s the chronology you’re not grasping.
market intervention in Chicago happened as soon as a zoning code was developed. TIFs and all the various zoning changes granted since then are examples of more market intervention.
all of that intervention has been primarily for investors, developers, etc.
so unless you’d care to challenge those facts, or my interpretation thereof, please describe to me the equivalent market intervention that has been done on behalf of artists, or whomever you’ve decided is out there looking for a free lunch at your expense.
“Maybe you should get your own thread for that subject, which is clearly tangential to this one.”
No, it’s not. Maybe you should start your own thread which can be entitled “In support of Adam Smith even when the invisible hand is covered in a studded corporate welfare glove and is wearing brass knuckles.”
This thread is quite clearly about Chicago and it’s ability to retain artists, re-read the title, “Chicago is losing its Bohemians” seems fairly crystal clear to me.
As to why my posts are most certainly relevant, I’ve lived here my whole life, and I can rattle off tons of musicians I both grew up and who I’ve played with.
What is a common thread for many is the lack of security for housing. Even when you own your own property the taxes in this City are insane, no working musician is getting raises that can keep up with the taxes, and the renters often find those taxes passed on in their rent, or the landlords eventually sell the building and it goes condo.
The idea that artists are leaving Chicago for reasons outside of economics is what I find a bit sketchy. This is simply a damned expensive place to live, the fact that it isn’t quite as damned expensive as NYC is what isn’t particularly relevant IMO.
what is relevant, is that at the root of the problem is the state of Illinois is currently in violation of its own constitution, which dictates that it is the state that is responsible for the majority of public school funding.
right now, the state is not. thus, localities are forced to use property taxes for schools.
please try and stay with the topic here, silentk got it right.
I find it pretty comical that when providing people opinions they obviously are fairly unfamiliar with they find it hostile.
When you have 3 full generations of people living here you associate with daily, then come talk to me.
But if you don’t have senior citizens on fixed incomes, people raising families, wealthy and poor Chicagoans in your social circle, then you aren’t “vested” in any meaningful way.
jeesh, even the language speaks volumes, as if the City is nothing more than a bank instrument to use to accumulate wealth…
Focusing on the topic– the issue at hand is “want to see more artists in Chicago? find a way to keep rents affordable.”
I’m going to disagree. I think the best way to see more artists is to make it more profitable to be an artist in Chicago.
One example where Chicago does NOT lack culture is theatre. There are countless theatre troupes, ranging from Goodman to Stephenwolfe, Lighthouse Theater, etc.
The problem is, it’s very hard to make any money acting in Chicago (or at least, I’ve heard actors interviewed, including Chicago’s own David Schwimmer, who’ve said this).
I disagree that rent control or cheap rents will bring more artists. Instead, more opportunities would bring more artists.
Honestly, in my opinion, four casinos, running Vegas-style shows, more hotels, more Lollapalooza style festivals, would do more than rent control.
Carter, I love your posts here. You exemplify perfectly what I always tell my friends in other parts of the country about Chicagoans. To my mind, there are two kinds. The first kind of Chicagoan is able to carry on a debate about the pros and cons of this city, in relation to other cities and simply in an absolute sense. These Chicagoans are thoughtful, and open-minded, and secure enough in their esteem (if not, like me, outright love) for the city that they can listen objectively, and, in fact, even learn from such a discussion.
The other type of Chicagoan is so insecure of themselves and of Chicago, so afraid that in any comparison with anywhere else Chicago will come up short, so loathe to admit that no city is an island and no idea of out-of-town provenance so unique that there couldn’t possibly be some grain of usefulness or truth in it, that they go about their lives carrying an enormous municipal chip on their shoulder. They’re easy to spot. They’re the ones constantly telling other people in chat rooms and on forums that they know better, if not perfectly, all there need be known about Chicago and anyone else who disagrees is either attacked ad hominem or, if not a native Chicagoan, told to go home (as if being born here somehow makes one Chicagoan “better” than another, and as if this city is somehow less “home” for those who have adopted it than for those who live here by accident of birth). These latter Chicagoans are tiresome and boring, but quite skilled in their ability to make other Chicagoans–both natives and newcomers–roll their eyes and shake their heads.
I’ll leave it to you to decide which camp you fall into.
a rhetorical puzzle, how clever of you, Mike.
I’ll begin by noting the arrogance that you are qualified to divide Chicago into two camps is beyond belief, do I get to wear some sort of colored patch so I don’t bore those poor souls like yourself? would you like to quarantine “my kind” west of what, Cicero Ave so we can clear out and leave all the prime real estate for you and your open-minded compadres?
I also could divide newcomers to the City into two camps, those that come here and expect the City to meet their expectations and preferences, and those that take the time to learn about the city by observing the customs, the culture, by listening to those of us who have gone to schools here, taken public transportation thousands upon thousands of times, worked our way through the labyrinths of red tape for everything related to our govt, who struggle to navigate the school system for our kids, who worry about our aging parents as they try to stay here on a fixed income, etc.
so you want to debate the pros and cons of the city, well god bless you, how about now doing it?
the point I was making was much larger than simply “protecting artists,” it was that all lower-income people in this city, which is increasingly becoming skewed in income distribution, are having a difficult time with housing for all the reasons I noted (which you of course didn’t address) above.
I most certainly do not think I (or anyone) is better than anyone else, but what a stupid question regarding who Chicago is home for – of course it’s more a home for those who grew up here, that’s simply because we can’t leave to go to a home anywhere else, we have to live in a world where our homes and communities are constantly being divided and fought over by petty individuals only concerned with their property values and not the long term health of the City.
does this mean your opinions aren’t valid? of course not, but it means that you need to explain how your ideas and visions play out over a few lifetimes, not simply until the next comments made by Bernanke.
in short, you don’t love the city, Mr. Doyle.
to love the City you would have to KNOW the city, you love the City that meets your expectations and preferences, and you obviously have a defensive reflex when issues out of your depth are discussed – it is people like you who make these conversations personal, not the other way around.
“I disagree that rent control or cheap rents will bring more artists. Instead, more opportunities would bring more artists.”
that’s not exactly what I said (or at least isn’t what I meant), Chach, the problem is not IMO so much bringing in more artists, it’s keeping artists here once they get past the stage of their lives where living in a studio apartment and sleeping on a futon is a romantic trip, or addressing the incredible loss of rental units as so many vintage buildings have gone condo.
I agree with you that more opportunities would help, no doubt about it. but the opportunities are dictated by the cost of business space, taxes, licenses, and a slew of other basic economic fundamentals.
talk to the people who run galleries, music venues, etc. the permits, the fees, the taxes, the razor-thin margins Chicago’s “market” offers are a bitch, that is what is suppressing opportunities here.
look at Wicker Park as your classic example – this was a hub for artists 20 years ago due to reasonable rents and available spaces, and now starting artists or working artists paying their bills month-to-month would be hard pressed to afford a place that has enough room for a closet with an easel in it.
to be clear, I think Chicago has a fantastic arts community and plenty of culture. that’s why I’m still here. that’s why so many people move here, if I move to a different town, you can bet I’d be listening to those locals about these things.
but after playing in Paris a few years ago and meeting musicians and people in the business in Europe, it’s obvious that our government has it’s priorities completely whacked. In Europe the government works, and – gasp! – even subsidizes to a small extent, to nurture artists.
here, we nurture the military-industrial complex and subsidize developers. what did boeing get again, $50 million in tax breaks and incentives to relocate it’s corporate HQ and a few exec jobs? Imagine if that money was used to subsidize more artist co-ops, or to allow our critically-need but woefully-underpaid teachers and cops and firemen to buy housing here in the City, where they are required to live.
just take a look at the budgets, local, state, federal, I’m simply telling it like it is.