Comments ( 38 )

• There are days I wonder why I sold my first place I bought in ’98 for $71K and moved south. Don’t get me wrong—I made a killing—but even with selling in ’01 to now the prices have gone through the roof. I remember when I first set foot in Uptown and everyone thought I was crazy and was bound to get killed. Ironically those very people also bought their first homes in Uptown as well.

• WW,

  I don’t think you will be lacking for appreciation in Woodlawn. If I had to guess, and I am, I would say Woodlawn will see a faster rise in housing prices than Uptown.

  In Uptown I would guess slightly better than the city average. In Woodlawn I would guess much better than average.

  Check back with me in 2012 and we can compare notes.

• Uptown has been “coming up” for the last 15 years, and has never quite made it. Why would anyone think the next 15 years will be any different? Until the last of the subsidized housing is gone, it will always be a ghetto and there can be no real appreciation. Once subprime lending dries up completely, nobody will shell out half a million bucks for a place where people sell drugs right outside the windows.

• Jane,

  can’t you find a new site to play at.

  I guess the people who bought condos in 1992 for around 90 grand and are selling them now for 300 grand saw no real appreciation.

  As I stated before you are an idiot.

  https://yochicago.com/today/neighborhood-journal/scenes-from-uptown_5152/#comments

• irishpirate, are you by chance a realtor? Idiots like you just can’t quit drinking the industry kool-aid. Let me guess, you bought to get a great tax deduction? If that’s such a good deal, I’ve got a great investment for you. For every dollar you send me, I’ll send you back a quarter. That’s essentially what your interest tax deduction is. As for equity, you only get to realize the gain when you sell at a profit. How many times have you done that? I take the money I don’t throw away on a mortgage and invest it, earning a much greater return than some possible equity gain many years down the road. Did I mention the money I don’t throw away on property taxes, assessments, maintenance, extra insurance, buying crap at Home Depot. Renting is sounding better and better. Especially with rents FALLING, that’s right they will be going down in the coming years. What do you think will happen to all those failed condo conversions and the “investments” owned by stuck flippers? You know what increasing supply does to price.

• g-h-e-t-t-o!

• I’m sure SOMEONE made money in Uptown. But it’s not happening now, or ever again in our life time. You have to be a brain dead idiot to buy there now. Jane’s right, the Section 8 people are not going anywhere. In fact, as the bubble bursts, I am predicting an increase in Section 8 applicants.

  Look at the failed Garfield Park. Look at 3001 W. Polk. Brand new yuppie condo filled with ghetto folk. They got all the stainless and granite and cherry wood I can’t afford….and they don’t even have a j-o-b! How’s that possible?! Must be nice to live on the taxpayer’s teet.

• Jane, I agree with you on some of your sentiments, specifically as they pertain to principal, interest, taxes, insurance and putting that money elsewhere – if that works for you. However, rents will not be falling. More renters in the pool of renting means that rents will increase. It’s supply and demand you buffoon. No matter what way you slice it, even if real estate prices slip, rents will rise if more people are in the market to rent. Even over the last two years, as the sales market slowed, rents rose. Expect more of this, no matter how many flippers get burned or conversions go bust.

  Now in the words of Dan Akroyd: Jane you ignorant slut.

• And to touch upon the Pirate’s comments, I agree. Uptown may not be paradise, but it has two things going for it: an increase in nightlife and retail, and an increase in working professionals choosing to RENT there, not to mention the fact that many bought there. It’s not my choice of a place to live, but it’s supply and demand. After many years, supply is being challenged by demand.

• I knew people who moved to Uptown in 2000 when it was still the ghetto. Not much has changed since. It is still the ghetto. Borders is closing and there goes the neighborhood.

  People bought a lot of stupid crap during the boom/bubble and Uptown was one of them. There is too much subsidized housing and let’s face it, living anywhere near ghetto people sucks. I did it for a number of years during college and I will never do it again. The crime, the burglaries, the homeless, the constant harassment on the street, the begging for money, the graffiti, the lack of decent retail, the groups of shady teenagers hanging out on the corners, the vandalism, the fear of walking in your own community at night, the attacks on the streets (I’ve been attacked), etc. (Can you guess where I went to college in chicago during the 90’s?)

  Anyone who paid a premium to buy in uptown during the last five years was foolish; which explains the large rush to sell right now. There 650 properties in the MLS right now for 60640 with a substantial number of those in the ‘uptown’ neighborhood.

• 1. I’m not a realtor, but I play one on TV.

  2. Odujoko, much of Uptown is not in that area code. Now run the Lincoln Park and Lakeview area codes and tell us how many properties are for sale. Let me guess a similar or higher number. Oops. I guess Lincoln Park and Lakeview are ghettoes and are going to decline. Anyone would be crazy to buy there. They were suckers to buy there. SELL. SELL. SELL. Run away. Run Away. We are the Knights who say “Nee”. With apologies to Monty Python.

  3. Borders is not closing their Uptown store. At least not yet. It seems is they are trying to sublease some space. They also made the same announcement about other locations. Such as that ghetto Lincoln Park area. Given the internet Borders has a “business model” in trouble.

  4. Lotsa new businesses currently renovating buildings around Lawrence and Broadway. New restaurants and bars soon to appear. The largest gay sports bar in the universe, Crew, is even opening another bar nearby. I guess they like losing money.

  5. Check out the following website to see the good,bad, and the ugly about what is happening in Uptown. They cover it all and all of it exists. Make sure you go through the “archives”. Do I need to phonetically spell “archives” for some of you?
  http://uptownupdate.blogspot.com/

  6. Uptown is not perfect. There are all kinds of issues. However, it is getting better. Unlike Jane and her “compatriots” I prefer facts and experience over lies and ignorance. Now go back to listening to talk radio.

  7. Woodlawn Chuckster was right in his description of Uptown. I suspect the choice he has made to live in Woodlawn will look quite prescient in the coming years.

• What is so great about $300K for 2BR in a
  section 8 village. You can do that in parts of downtown like South Loop and West Loop. My girlfriend bought in Uptown and is miserable…what a mistake. Uptown is as seedy as it comes. If you are going to go this far North, just keep going to Evanston.

  Jane is dead on!

• location, location, location

  Uptown is a complex area & not right for everyone, but come on, it’s right on the lake, has the red line, entertainment, decent architecture, etc.

  I have been intimately familiar with Uptown since I was in 4th grade, and shortly thereafter I was taking the red line from Lincoln Park to see my dentist (braces, curses) and optometrist (an eyepatch for a lazy eye, double curses) in the Uptown bank building.

  Was there a gang growing weed in the vacant lot just west of the L? yes. Were people being shot on the street and dragged out of their cars? No.

  I played late gigs at the Green Mill from 04 – 06, had late rehearsals in the area for 10 years preceding with a different bandmate, have been going to concerts at the Riv and Aragon since 1988, people, it ain’t that bad.

• I’m always amazed by the diversity of opinion on this site.

  But riddle me this, why does ghetto=subsidized housing? Is this a nice way to not directly address the 800 gorilla in the room?

• Uptown is a large neighborhood, and parts of it are extremely fancy. What about the mansions on Hutchinson Street? To write off the entire neighborhood is just stupid. Yeah, there are still some problems in the “heart” of Uptown, but the edges are quickly closing in. People initially bought in the areas bordering Lakeview, Andersonville, and Ravenswood, and those “nicer” bordering areas have expanded inward toward the small gritty center which is shrinking rapidly–in spite of our wack-job Alderman. Also, Margate Park is a very nice area bordering Edgewater along the lakefront, and I don’t see it going into decline any time soon. If you want to live in Adersonville, Lakeview, or Ravenswood but can’t afford it, there is definitely a nice corner of Uptown for you. And I am not a realtor.

• I generally use ghetto to refer to people who don’t consider other people when they act- throwing garbage on the street, because “someone else gets paid to pick it up” = ghetto. Not mowing your lawn, letting weeds go crazy = ghetto.

  Once you get a critical mass of such bums, an entire area starts to have that ghetto flavor.

  this is of course a separate distinction from physical ghettoes, which once referred to places Jews were forced to live, then became a reference to high rise public housing, etc.

• I love how people who purchased overpriced pieces of garbage in a ‘gentrifying’ neighborhood refused to admit they were duped. They don’t realize that at $300K for a two-bedroom, they’ve already mortgaged the next 10 years of appreciation and given it to the developer.

  They’ll continue defend their neighborhood to the death despite the fact that gang bangers are literally selling crack in front of the Wilson El stop. I know this happens because a lawyer I know is defending a case where the defendant was charged with doing the same less than four months ago.

  And regarding the 800 lbs gorilla, let’s not beat around the bush. No one wants to live in the ‘hood, the barrio or a trailer park with lowlifes and dregs of society. I know I sure don’t and I’m not afraid to admit it. You folks in Uptown might feel the need to be urban and diverse and on the cutting edge but I think you’re crazy. I’d rather live in an established and safe neighborhood anyday no matter how cheap the neighborhood is.

• Odujoko, have you ever spent any time in Uptown away from the Wilson “L” stop? Of course not, because you are utterly clueless. The commercial center of Uptown is by far the grittiest area, especially by the Wilson “L” stop, which I avoid. But check out Buena Park. I’ve lived here for a couple of years, and have had less trouble with crime than anywhere else I’ve lived in the city–including Lincoln Park. Buena Park is already an “established neighborhood”. And it’s within walking distance of East Lakeview or “Wrigleyville” or whatever you want to call it. I’m less than a mile from Wrigley field, and I don’t think anyone who comes to visit me would ever call my block “ghetto”. Like I said, Uptown is big, and the areas just a few blocks in from Ravenswood, Lakeview, and Andersonville are quite nice. It’s not like the city becomes a war zone as soon as you go north of Irving Park Rd…

• Such artful sidestepping.

  No one still truly wants to address the gorilla of race, class and the perceptions of a “good” neighborhood.

  Actually I take that back, Mr. Zekas did so about a month or so ago.

• What gorilla? There really isn’t that much subsidized housing in Buena Park… Demographically, this area isn’t really that different from Lakeview. This all changes as you go north of Montrose, of course.

• it is true that uptown has its issues. but it’s also true that you can get a lot more for your money here. i’ve been in uptown for three years now and have no intention of moving. i paid $150k less for a comparable condo in lakeview and i’m a five minute cab ride from both a’ville and lakeview.

  the surrounding neighborhoods are closing in on uptown too. i had a friend who lived at sheridan/irving in ’99 and that now area is vastly different that it was back then.

  the appreication in lakeview will also only help uptown as well. let everyone keep paying $500k for a 12foot wide condo with an outdoor parking spot down there!

• The Woodlawn Wonder speaks of race. The color question. That is the gorilla she speak of. That great American question. That great American problem. I wish I could remember the phrase a European sociologist used in the 1940’s to describe it. It would be appropriate, but I need more caffeine.

  What does race have to do with Uptown and/or the term ghetto? Very complex question which deserves a complex answer.

  First, I would like to thank Odujoko for being “multi cultural” in his ignorance. Notice how he managed to associate American blacks, hispanics and whites in the following phrase: “No one wants to live in the ‘hood, the barrio or a trailer park with lowlifes and dregs of society.”

  I’ll let folks take that as they may.

  I would define “ghetto” for this usage as an area with relatively high amounts of crime, substance abuse, poverty, poor schools, lack of jobs and legitimate economic opportunity, and a general run down appearance. Vacant lots, boarded up buildings, people hanging out on the streets and doing nothing etc. would all be parts of a “ghetto”.

  As for Uptown from the 1960’s until the 1990’s large parts of it were a multi racial ghetto. Poor whites, blacks, hispanics, and American Indians all lived together in relative squalor and violence. If you get a chance rent the movie “The Hunter” from 1980. Large parts of it were filmed in and around the 4200 block of Kenmore. You can see what the neighborhood looked like then. Also try “Medium Cool” from 1968 which also has great scenes from the 1968 Democratic convention as well as shots of Uptown.

  As for “the gorilla” I will get back to that a little later. Right now I need to go over to “Jake’s Pup in the Ruff” restaurant and pick up some broasted chicken. Jake’s is at the corner of NE corner of Sheridan/Montrose or as some would call it “the ghetto”.

• Back to the “gorilla”.

  If a neighborhood has “too many” blacks the perception is that it is a “ghetto”. Which is ridiculous if you consider all the thriving middle class neighborhoods in this city that are majority black.

  Pill Hill, Chatham, and Jackson Park Highlands are some examples.

  It all reminds me of a funny quote about Hyde Park “Whites and blacks standing together against the lower classes”.

  As for Uptown the areas that have real problems seem to be near where there are significant numbers of subsidized housing units. Concentrating poverty is stupid. Concentrating it in tall buildings is even worse.

  People need to be in areas where they can have a variety of role models. Not just a bunch of goofballs hanging out on the street drinking and being obnoxious.

  Oh well. We are not going to solve the problems of the world today. But it is sunny and 70 degrees out. So I’m going to go walk around this “ghetto” I call home. Never had a serious problem in the nearly two decades I have been here, but hey maybe something will happen and Jane will say “I told you so.”

• Forgot one thing. I found a reference to something I alluded to earlier. It was call “The American Dilemma”.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_dilemma

• Well shiver me timbers, Pirate. It’s about time someone came out and said it in the open.

  BTW, nice reference to Jackson Park Highlands. It’s one of my dream neighborhoods.

  I just might have to buy you a beer you old scurvy dog.

• Bad schools mean a neighborhood is ghetto? Harsh, as test scores would seem to suggest all of Chicgao qualifies.

  but that would explain why the whole city qualifies to be “TIF’d up.”

  the puzzle becomes clearer…

• Woodlawn Wonder,

  Jackson Park Highlands is a beautiful little neighborhood. I’ve only been through it a few times but it is better than nice. Interestingly from what I read and have seen there it does seem to have a small degree of stable racial integration. I seem to recall reading that it is about 10 percent white and that number is stable. My guess is that a large number of University of Chicago types of all races live there.

  Carter,

  you have a good point on the public schools but it takes more than just one factor to make a ghetto. In some sense a ghetto is almost a state of mind or of being.

• Yeah Jane, can’t you find some where else to play? If not, then you need to get in lock step with the rest of us. No room for dissenting opinions here.

• CREB,

  interesting blog you have there. Are you a city employee? From your nom de guerre I would guess you are or perhaps a spouse. There is a whole lot of hating housing prices going on there.

  I might be wrong.

  As for Jane she contributes nothing here. People are entitled to opinions. When they have them those opinions should be based on fact or experience.

  Jane’s whole schtick is all uninformed opinion and no real facts. You are not entitled to your own facts.

  What enjoyment she gets out of posting here is beyond me. Outside of hoping for a 50 percent drop in prices so she can afford to buy something. Of course buyers are suckers and maybe she will just rent forever.

  Oh well.

• However, rents will not be falling. More renters in the pool of renting means that rents will increase. It’s supply and demand you buffoon.
  —

  HAHAH You want to talk about supply and demand? Do you SEE how many empty condos out there? Are you blind? They will all be competeing with each other for conversion to rental, when they realize that they can’t sell! You’re the buffoon!

• 2. Odujoko, much of Uptown is not in that area code. Now run the Lincoln Park and Lakeview area codes and tell us how many properties are for sale. Let me guess a similar or higher number. Oops. I guess Lincoln Park and Lakeview are ghettoes and are going to decline. Anyone would be crazy to buy there.
  —

  You’re an idiot. LV and LP are not ghetto bec they do not have the problems that “O” mentioned. Just bec a hood has lots of properties for sale does not mean it is ghetto. It’s ghetto bec it’s ghetto.

• Also, Margate Park is a very nice area bordering Edgewater along the lakefront, and I don’t see it going into decline any time soon.
  —

  Some one got shot in Margate Park last weekend…

• Pirate, it’s not my blog. No I’m not a city employee nor a spouse of one. Strike 1, 2 and 3! I guess I missed the facts that Jane made up in her post. I read some opinions but I didn’t see any “facts” listed. You’re not entitled to decide what is fact and what is opinion, as much as you may think you are THE authority of information on this board. FYI, I wouldn’t reference Wikipedia to often, it’s not a great source of accurate information.

• I’m sorry to hear that someone got shot in Margate Park. But it just goes to show that crime is everywhere and being in a “good” neighborhood is no guarantee that you’ll be “safe” forever.

  I was robbed twice while living in “nice” Wrigleyville. I survived four years on the South Side without a scratch.

  As with so much of life, your chances of being a crime victim are frequently just a matter of PDL (Plain Dumb Luck).

• Thanks CREB.

  If I need any other advice I will come directly to you.

  Wikipedia was correct on “The American Dilemma”.

  Thank you for helping all of us.

• Lighten up Francis

• Wow, you can quote “Stripes”. Maybe, try something from “Porky’s” next time.

• No, I’ll leave the low brow stuff to you.