In addition to having $1.45 million, potential buyers of the new five-bedroom single-family home at 1702 W Melrose St, which is listed by Sussex & Reilly, must have a healthy sense of patriotism. What do yo’all think, does Old Glory look tacky carved on an address plate?
Yee-ha! White trash aristocracy!
I like the flag – and I’m usually not a fan of overly jingoistic ethnocentricism masquerading as patriotism. But this is well-done, seems pretty unobtrusive and fits in with the overall aesthetic.
Nat, I have to confess: before Joel posted it I told him the idea irked me but it had been done rather well. Still stand by my previous comments, however. But now I’m wondering why I assumed the homeowners are white (probably because that’s the primary demographic who can afford those homes in Chicago and for some reason I associate flag-waving with white Americans), but do you think white Americans are more likely to hang flags outside their homes than other ethnic groups? (I noticed you referred to a certain ethnocentrism and am wondering if you think so?)
Alison,
What an ugly and grotesque comment from an Australian!
The very many people who love this country and fly its flag to symbolize nothing other are due an apology.
Gee Alison. I seem to remember making a comment which you found “sexist” now you use the phrase “white trash aristocracy”.
HMMMM, bit of a double standard perhaps?
By the way I think the flag was done tastefully in this instance.
ARRRRRRRRRGH
Irish —
Political Correctness Lesson 176:
It’s okay to make potentially offensive comments about a particular group as long as one is a member of said group.
Misanthrope,
I personally find that offensive……..now I am going to go back to drinking my Guinness and singing bad folks songs.
Dennis Leary Traditional Irish Folk Song Lyrics
THEY COME OVER HERE AND THEY TAKE ALL OUR LAND.
THEY CHOP OFF OUR HEADS AND THEY BOIL THEM IN OIL.
OUR CHILDREN ARE LEAVING AND WE HAVE NO HEADS.
WE DRINK AND WE SING AND WE DRINK AND WE DIE.
WE HAVE NO HEADS NO WE HAVE NO HEADS
THEY COME OVER HERE AND THEY CHOP OFF OUR LEGS.
THEY CUT OFF OUR HANDS AND PUT NAILS IN OUR EYES.
O’GRADY IS DEAD AND O’HANRAHAN’S GONE.
WE DRINK AND WE DIE AND CONTINUE TO DRINK.
O’HANRAHAN NO O’HANRAHAN
– solos –
THEY BURIED O’NEILL DOWN IN COUNTRY SHILLHAME.
THE POOR CHILDREN CRYING AND FE DEE DIN DE.
HIN FLE DI DIN FLE DI DIN FLE DE DIN DE.
IN HEY BIBBLE BIBBLE HEY BIBBLE BIBBLE HEY FLE BIBBLE DE.
O’HANRAHAN NO O’HANRAHAN
WE DRINK AND WE SING AND WE DRINK AND WE SING. HEY!
WE DRINK AND WE DRIVE AND WE PUKE AND WE DRINK. HEY!
WE DRINK AND WE FIGHT AND WE BLEED AND WE CRY. HEY!
WE PUKE AND WE SMOKE AND WE DRINK AND WE DIE. HEY!
Geez. It’s an 8″ flag. I was going to comment that Alison’s joke fell flat for me, but then she reiterated those same comments. It actually “irked” her.
And Nathaniel’s underwhelming support was so laboriously qualified that it seemed to imply that this is an exception to what would otherwise be too nationalist of a display.
Wow.
Of course, if it weren’t for people like you, I’d have no need for my Dale Earnhardt Jr. ball cap. Yeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaaaaw!
We’ll have to agree to disagree, mate. When I arrived in the U.S. I was taken aback to see flags hanging outside the front of houses and found it to be jingoistic. I assume you mean that my comments are ugly and grotesque coming from a foreigner (rather than from an Australian), but I know that many Americans share my view that such flag-waving is jingoistic (see the post above mine.)That doesn’t mean that I don’t have ways to show my love and appreciation for this country. Thanksgiving is a wonderful and meaningful tradition that I have embraced, and every year I give thanks for my American husband, his family and our happy lives.
Irish Pirate – Ok, we’re 1 – 1. “White trash” is one of the few denigrating terms that people get away with saying, when sexist and other prejudiced comments are taboo, yet it is a classist term.
I think the flag is a perfectly honorable display. I think it would look better if they just hung out the actual flag like normal people. But knee-jerk hostility to American patriotism makes me think the hostile person doesn’t understand history and so doesn’t appreciate this country.
Foreigners reacting to the American flag is a reaction to America’s self-appointed role as world policeman, not to other aspects of the nation’s history.
By the way, at times when our friends the Australians have been particularly supportive of us in difficult straights recently, I’ve seen American and Australian (and British) flags hung out side by side in my area out of heartfelt thanks and respect.
I can’t really argue with West Side’s analysis of my support of the flag. Lots of them are too big, too showy, and ring hollow (IMO – patriotism is a personal relationship with your native country, and it’s no surprise this is an issue that evokes some strong personal responses).
As to Alison’s question – I don’t think flag-waving has much to do with skin color. When I said ethnocentrism, I’m not talking race, I’m talking about the implication that if my country is the best, then all other countries (and their people, including some wonderful Australian and Irish folks I know) must suck. It’s the kind of patriotism that a Toby Keith song plays on, and (while his audiences are, I think, mostly white) it doesn’t actually have anything to do with the color of the patriot’s skin.
Also, I’ve noticed in the last few years that the phrase “White Trash” isn’t always limited to describing white people anymore. “White Trash” describes an attitude and a social class, and I’ve heard it used to describe people of all colors recently.
Finally – thanks for the song, Irish.
All these politically correct phrases are annoying.
Now just because many Americans would agree with you Alison means absolutely NOTHING. Many Americans believe the Earth was created 6000 years ago and that George Bush was picked by Jesus to lead America.
As for foreigners reaction to the American flag…………thpppppt to them. Doesn’t stop them from coming in by the millions legally and illegally and hoping and praying to get a green card.
The United States is condemned all over the world. It is also the number one place people all over the world hope to move to. Ironic, huh?
Being an Aussie you should be happy about America’s self appointed role in the world. I seem to recall some little disturbance around Darwin Australia involving Japanese folks around 64 years ago or so.
With that it is probably best this discussion taper off.
ARRRRRRRRRGH
It should be “straits,” shouldn’t it. Look, I don’t want this to degenerate. Just expect that your hostility to America’s role in the world (which comes at tremendous, heart-wrenching sacrifice in blood and treasure) — and displays of respect for it — will get substantial pushback in this country. That shouldn’t be a surprise, no matter what the opinions in your immediate circle.
I enjoy this site, and I enjoy your comments about development and architecture. I think you have a good eye and a balanced view in general.
Allison people die to honor the flag you desecrate, and people die to give you the right to desecrate it. Show some dignity.
My grandmother proudly displays her American flag on her fireplace mantle, it is folded into a triangle and was draped over my grandfathers coffin the day of his funeral.
I agree that we shouldn’t go too far off topic and into politics. You mentioned Darwin, so a quick right-of-reply: the U.S. navy boats docked in the harbour were key targets of that attack. It was in both countries’ (US and Australia)’s interests to defend Darwin, not just Australia’s.
Happy Thanksgiving everybody.
I found Alison’s comment ugly and grotesque, period. More so from someone who’s not an American.
Assumptions can be dangerous. For all anyone knows this home is owned by a Latino or a Cambodian who lost a son or daughter in service of this country and flies the flag for that reason.
Come up to Kenilworth or Wilmette (white trash-land, I guess) near Independence Day and see the flags flying all over the place.
It’s a very, very sad thing for anyone to equate patriotism with jingoism. It’s even more sad to see people making assumptions about other people without having any basis for them.
I’m admonishing our staff with this post to do better by all of you in the future. My personal apologies for the lapse in judgment.
NSH, I didn’t see your comment before I posted mine. The word “desecrate” is not an appropriate way to characterize my point. I’ll leave it at that.
ARRRRRRRRRGH.
Naval ships……..not boats………maybe vessels…………..never boats………
Happy Thanksgiving…………u damn Aussie commie. ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH!
One of the things I admire most about the United States is the first amendment.
Joe,
I just noticed your last comment. I didn’t really take her comment to be offensive…..although I have a particularly thick skin.
It was just indicative of the attitudes of some people who rush to condemn the flag or denigrate it. (Not desecrate)
On the other side of the divide there are those who rush to wrap themselves in the flag. They are equally as annoying. Particularly when they may support the Iraq war yet ducked serving in a war when they were younger. If anyone thinks I am talking of certain high office holders in the federal government……you are correct.
ARRRRRRRRRRGH
Joe-
If it were the case that this could be a family flying the flag in honor of a relative who’s paid the ultimate sacrifice in service to this country then this would be a very different conversation. That’s not the case, though – as I understand it from the initial post, this is a new-construction home, and the developer has decided to make the flag a permamnet feature of the home. That does raise questions about whether potential buyers will be comfortable with a built-in display of patriotism, and I think that’s an interesting issue.
My personal resistance to what I describe as jingoism comes from the overly aggressive patriotism that I’ve seen at times (e.g. “Freedom Fries” in the Senate cafeteria) – not from a personal display of love for our country. Maybe that makes me too sensitive to any displays of patriotism, and maybe that makes me come across as more hostile towards the basic concept of patriotism than I really am.
Yes, Alison. The first amendment allows all of us to make fools of ourselves and to pointlessly denigrate other people.
Not to put too fine a point on this, but you probably would have swept my parents, and me at a younger age, into the white trash orbit.
Are my brothers’ kids white trash because they proudly display the flag that was draped over their dad’s coffin at his military funeral?
Nat, you raise a good point and it would be interesting to find out more about it from the builder.
Nathaniel,
And what do we know about the developer and his / her reason for doing this? Assumptions about people can be deadly.
IF you want to see a good commentary on “white trashness” get a hold of “Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America”, tracing the role people of Scots-Irish ancestry have played in American history and culture. These folks are typically called white trash.
It was written by Jim Webb, Democratic Senator elect from Virginia and a highly decorated Vietnam veteran.
ARRRGH
Joe, I can’t help it if you and NSH have misunderstood the point that I have made several times. I think it helps to “play the ball, not the man” in this debate and not infer that other people have grossly and unconscionably insulted one’s family members. Assumptions about people can indeed be deadly.
Irish Pirate, you make some good points (although I never condemned the flag, just the way it was used), so on Thursday I’ll have a Guinness in your honour.
Alison,
implicitly you condemned the flag with your “white trash aristocracy” comment. It suggested that the only people who would openly show the flag like that would be “white trash”. Don’t even get me going on the implications of your use of that phrase.
We all need to be careful about our own attitudes and prejudices. I am certainly not perfect in that regard.
Oh well…………ARRRRRRRRRGH
I grew up taking the flag down off the house at dusk and putting it up before we left for school. A tradition I carry on in my own family to this day. We treat the flag with the same honor and respect and dignity we would treat anyone who fought for it. I would never hold some classist animosity toward anyone who waves a flag or displays a flag on their home.
Don’t display a flag on your home Alison, I don’t give a shit really, just do not pass judgment on those who do.
Alison, I grew up in a small town in southern Illinois and believe me, most of us does not fly the flag. As to my family, my grandfather fought in World War Two for USA and he never once had the American flag up at his home. Beside, in our family- showing the flag does not make one American, the act of respecting one freedom to exercise free speech, respecting various religions and sexual orientations define us as being American.
However, there is one man that lives next door that flies the American flag yet he does not like African-American, gays, interracial, etc.
Plus as to the topic of white trash- we use it to describe those that are against interracial marriages and those that do not like African-American, gays, etc.
Thus I wouldn’t want a flag on my house because I know that I don’t have to prove that I am a citizen of USA.
Alison,
Look at your initial comment – that’s “playing the ball not the man?”
I like the flag. Reminds me I’m in the U.S., walking down a great street in a fantastic city. Looks good, feels good.
As for the social/ethnic/politcal implications… the conversation above was tiresome. “Tacky” was a unfortunate for the lead in question on a decent architectual topic. Leading the witness.
The point should have been better made about the implication for actually selling the house. My opinion… a plus.
I like the house that is the point of the post.
Building a flag of any nationality into a structure makes it look like an embassy or something. If you want a flag fly a real one.
…or an historical marker – what happened there in 1702?
Attrill,
1702 is the street address.
This thread needs to die.
ARRRRRRRGH
Not to add fuel to the fire here, but frankly I wasn’t even aware that Australia yet found the glory of indoor plumbing.
dumbest thread ever
Rock and roll will never die!
You cannot stop it!
I wanna give a shout out to my homies in the 847! T-Doug, Sloopy G, Pad Prik, p-Nutz
I’m killin’ y’all on this interweb.
OMG Wesley Willis on Yo-Chicago.
listen up, Alison is Australian, that makes her right.
patriotism is a good thing, but thats taking it to an extreme. i mean your not about to go print the American flag on everything you own or walk past in the street, if you were i think we would all have the right to call you odd, or, a white trash aristocrat, or even white trash freakshow (which is a band i played in a while ago) whatever floats your boat.
flag flying is one thing, many Australians do that too (not the american flag obviously the Australian one) but there is a certain line you cross, this line is personal opinion. it just so happens to be that if someone is so damn patriotic that they feel it necessary to print a national flag on a mail box, Alison will feel that that is odd. Alison was not commenting on patriotism just how people go overboard.
dan you are the typical stupid American. when i first heard of such ignorance and stupidity i was hesitant to believe it. do you think we all ride around on our pet kangaroo as well? if you have any questions about the stereotype stupid American ask Alison I’m sure she’d be happy to tell you all about it, as i will never return to this thread i just googled the lyrics to that cool drinking song about children and heads missing and irish people.
all my love and hope for getting drunk and singing that cool song in the future
the patriotic australian
P.S grow and brain and relax a bit.
hey hey look at the date on that…