Yesterday’s loft roundup (yeeha, get along little loft!) sparked an interesting debate between Tracey and Jeff about two projects, Motor Row Lofts (bottom video above) and Opera Lofts (top video above).
Tracey is of the opinion that while these projects look great, they’re priced too high for the neighborhood, an edgy, sparse stretch just south of the South Loop. Jeff counters that new development, ranging from McCormick Place expansion to a planned Hilton, makes the neighborhood ripe for appreciation.
We thought we’d post a couple of video tours of the developments and let you judge for yourself.
You can find out more about the neighborhood immediately north of this location on our South Loop video play list and our South Loop photo set on Flickr.
Check out the neighborhood to the south in our Bronzeville / North Kenwood-Oakland video play list, our Bronzeville photo set and our North Kenwood-Oakland photo set.
As you might have guessed, we don’t have a whole lot on the Near South blocks sandwiched in between these neighborhoods, but we will, don’t you worry.
Are these anywhere near the notorious E-2 club, and what’s happening with that building now anyway?
The Tribune had a “special to Tribune” writer Dan Raft (I think) column a couple Sunday’s ago about how great this stretch of South Loop is, 2000 South and such. They rolled out the virgin purchasers in the townhomes at 2300 Block of Wabash to gush; some brought their small children from the suburbs with them.
It was a real rah-rah article. The people who bought there could not tell you enough about how great it is. And the history! They love to talk about the history.
I guess it’s all relative. In the next 5 years, my guess is appreciation will do little to counter the negatives of this desolate stretch, for me anyway. I’ve had owners complain they don’t want to walk their dogs at night around 18th and Michigan because of the “edginess”, let alone south of there.
I think its valid to speculate if there will be future appreciation. But for the time being, the lofts and townhomes are no deal and not a great place to bring your 5 to 12 year old to live-even when the parents claim its for the “culture”. At least give the kid some trees and grass in other city hoods.
Eric, Of course there will be nowhere near the appreciation of the last 10 years; some of this is real estate cycle timing, not solely the location.
However, as to the state of the area (“edginess”), worse was said in 1997 for those who moved South of Roosevelt; it was far more dangerous. Having lived south of Roosevelt in 1997, I will say, Motor Row has 1,000% better ‘fundamentals’ or ‘foundations’ in its same state relative to the South Loop in 1997. At the same time, Motor Row shares one caveat with the north Part of the South Loop (that aided in the pace of transformation), not much gentrification is required for this area.
However, something, public or private, needs to be done to solidfy the State Street area, with the stretch of public housing.
Yet the Motor Row should have a better defined housing character than the Roosevelt / State/ Wabash Corridor, due to the historical designation requirements.
To compare areas:
1997 Roosevelt / State/ Wabash Corridor.
Roosevelt Transient Hotel, St. James Transient Hotel, rundown Amoco Station, abandoned buildings from 11th south to 18th, Dearborn Park I, abandon lots at Roosevelt, streets unpaved, no sidewalks. Shopping, candy bar at the liquior store. It was straight out of those 1970’s Chuck Norris movies in Chicago.
2007 – Roosevelt / State/ Wabash Corridor.
Restaurants – Gioco, 11th Street Diner, Opera, Chicago Fire House, Bongo Room, Grace O’Malley’s, Yoke, Starbucks, etc.
Transportation – refurbished Red & Orange lines station, all new bus area, new sidewalks, etc., Museum Campus, etc.
Shopping – Jewel, Whole Foods, Dominick’s, Walgreen’s (2), etc.
“Edginess” at 18th and Michigan? I live on this block and very seldom do I feel nervous here anymore than in the Loop.
Here’s the Trib article mentioned by Eric Rojas. According to the Trib writer, Motor Row represents “the chance to get into an up-and-coming Chicago neighborhood before its prices soar.” (Hold your fire, folks; I’m just quoting.)
In analyzing the pricing at Motor Row Lofts it’s worth noting that the building is aiming to be eligible for a property tax freeze based on its historic status.
My experience has been that the developer simply takes the discounted present value of the tax benefit and folds most of it back into the purchase price, the net effect being that the tax freeze benefits the developer rather than the buyer. The sales agent for the project contends that isn’t the case with this project.
Eric – I love all the historic references. A focus on the history is often a signal that the present isn’t worth talking about. Think Uptown.
“A focus on the history is often a signal that the present isn’t worth talking about. Think Joe Zekas.”
Snicker.
irishpirate,
So true!
Well when one has more years behind that in front the past(history) takes on added importance.
Although given the joy you get from cracking on Uptown you might go past your life expectancy.
I do tend to agree with your larger point though. The “past” of a neighborhood is not particularly relevant to its future. There are larger issues regarding economics, location, transportation etc.
irishpirate,
I take no joy in picking on cripples (Uptown). Pirate-baiting is what it’s all about.
The future of a neighborhood isn’t terribly relevant to its future either. When buyers approach a neighborhood by saying, in effect, “you’d have to pay me (appreciation) to live here,” that should raise a flag.
Well I am glad to be “bait”.
As for that area of the south loop I don’t know it well enough to say anything but “it will be better in 10 years” How much I don’t know.
I do remember it in the early 90’s and it has come a hell of a long way.
History charges the present with meaning and can give added purpose and guidance to, say, rehabbing an old house, maybe a neighborhood.
It also seems pretty obvious to me that buoyed by the hopes and dreams of the commenters, Chicago communities have nowhere to go but up!
One thing the Roosevelt area didn’t have: CHA housing two blocks away. If you want to get to that Chinatown EL stop, you are going to have to walk past some pretty sketchy areas.
What’s funny is no one mentions the run down CHA properties that are two blocks away. As of now, none of those homes are even part of the CHA rehab plans. They are being used as dumping grounds, I mean, er relocation resources.
Until we know what’s planned for those homes (ickes and dearborne), the development of this area will continue to be an uncertain proposition.
Thanks mah… I have to be objective on these issues due to my standing as a licensed Realtor. But you raise the issues I hear on the street.
My point was mainly about the way, every so often, the Tribune features an over the top article about the next great place to live. I remember about two years ago, the Trib featured what I think was “THE SAME” article about Washington Park (sub Washington Park for otor Row etc…) Than I looked up sales in the area… there was less than a handful.
Jeff- Thanks for the real estate lesson…. it was a rah-rah article in an influential newspaper that presents a heavy dose of the owners that have bought (took a leap) in this area. Its my opinion, but buying here represents tough ten years on your kid just to make a few bucks on a place. Its drab, and will be for a long time.
As it stands, it is overpriced now, and anyone who has to re-sell in the next few years that bought full price will have a hard time breaking even and moving the place. They are no longer selling the “dream” of new construction where you get to pick selections etc… re-sales never have that luster in locations like this.
Kristina- my clients were insiders on a purchase in this area, got the deal of the century… and still want out. Its their opinion, but its a first hand account that they have sketchvilles hanging out when they walk their dog etc…
I use to promote Albany Park all the time when I lived there as an owner… but I moved when I had the chance!! But seriously folks…
As mah commented, its just an uncertain proposition that I am not as excited about promoting as the Chicago Tribune is.
My main point is that this area could be huge. But the main blockade from this happening is the public housing.
It needs to be rehabbed and incorporated into the CHA’s plan for change. Right now, it’s being left behind and that’s why spending a ton of money in this area is not worthwhile. Clean up the CHA’s areas and development will flourish just like it did on the Near North Side.
I almost missed Joe Zekas’s Uptown slam… I don’t think that Joe Zekas ever spends any time in Uptown. I don’t count walking down the decrepit retail strip on Broadway, or hanging out by the homeless shelters. But the residential areas of Buena Park and Margate Park are quite nice, and Sheridan Park is getting better by the day. Uptown has even improved quite a bit in the last two years since the real estate market seems to have peaked and dropped.
Uptown is always going to be a block by block kind of place, but you can’t just write off the whole neighborhood.
UptownR,
We’re in agreement that sections of Uptown are better than others, and worth considering.
And, you’re right that I haven’t spent enough time in Uptown lately to have a solid fix on the whole.
Mah & Eric – you must have missed my quote
“However, something, public or private, needs to be done to solidfy the State Street area, with the stretch of public housing.”…I did mention it.
I know you mentioned the CHA properties, but I was surprised it didn’t come up in the video. It’s a tough question, but I’d like to see how they would have responded.
mah,
I didn’t raise the question in the videos for different reasons in each case.
At Motor Row, I simply ditzed out on the proximity. At Opera Lofts the project existed in such genuine isolation from almost anything else it didn’t seem terribly relevant.
In my experience there’s a group of buyers out there who are simply oblivious to their surroundings. They live in a building, rather than in a neighborhood. As long as they have the right creature comforts in their building and unit, and have secure parking, whatever might be going on around them is not a factor in their choice.
That’s not the way I’d approach a housing choice, but it is a fairly common approach.
Yeah, speaking of Uptown…the Buena Park area of Uptown is family-friendly, and compared to much of the north side closer to downtown, much less expensive. Going north from Lakeview just cross Irving Park Road and the property values go down drastically, and ironically the streets are more beautiful (as well as the great vintage non-gut-rehabbed housing stock) than the cookie-cutter condos in so-called “hot neighborhoods”.