Last week we reported that the affordable housing component had been scrapped in favor of offices in the proposed development at 410 E Grand Ave in Streeterville.
Some background from the Greg Hinz on Politics blog:
At issue were plans recently announced by Golub Real Estate to build two residential structures on what now is a parking lot: a 45-story, 490-unit market-rate tower — in Streeterville, “market rate” means upscale — and an adjacent building with 200 or so units, all of them to be filled with people making well under the metropolitan area average income.
Officials at Golub, who didn’t return several phone calls from me, argued at a recent public hearing that the affordable building would be home to nurses, medical technicians and others who work at nearby hospitals but can’t afford to live in the area.
Not surprisingly, nearby residents “hated” the proposal, showing up in big numbers to protest, Mr. Reilly says.
So, as the alderman wrote in his weekly email to constituents, Golub now has submitted a revised proposal, which dumps the affordable housing in favor of a commercial-medical office building.I wasn’t at the public hearing, so it’s hard to judge exactly how much not-in-my-back-yard sentiment was expressed.
Did Streeterville residents really object to having nurses and other hospital workers as their neighbors? If so, as a former hospital worker who was married to a nurse for 20 years, I find their behavior nausea-inducing. Did the Alderman have any part in Golub’s revising its proposal?
Has Streeterville finally realized the Captain’s dream of seceding from the United States – or at least from civilized society?
Im sure they didnt object to nurses and technicians. Im pretty sure this is silent bigotry against section 8 voucher holders and seniors.
Simon,
That would be equally disgusting.
Joe, have you considered checking facts before calling people “nauseating”? Is there low income housing in that immediate area? If so, where?
Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest that people objected to “nurses and technicians”?
Know what I find nauseating? People who make rude comments about groups of people without any factual basis at all.
Try this next time: get your facts straight, and THEN post. Otherwise, your stuff is pretty nauseating.
DLewin,
Have you considered reading what I wrote? Try it next time.
I said “If so…” clearly indicating that I did not know the facts.
You put “nausea- inducing” in your headline, but now say basically “Well, despite the headline, I really don’t know what I’m talking about.” And I’m sure you are just scratching your head wondering why people might take offense.
You might want to reconsider the headline. And you also might want to wait until you get your facts, and then writing. A lot of people in Streeterville are not wild about the suggestion that we might be “nausea-inducing” particularly when that suggestion is made by somebody who has apparently read one limited story and has no real facts. Facts are good, Joe. Try getting facts, and then typing.
Maybe I should write an article titled “Joe Zekas: Nausea Inducing Fact Hater?” and then ramble on that just maybe you writing without research. That wouldn’t bother you, would it? I mean, as long as I used a question mark.
DLewin,
Once again I invite you to read a little more closely. My headline was cast as a question.
Are you suggesting, in effect, that Ald. Reilly misinformed Greg Hinz as to the community having “hated” the proposal for affordable housing?
I don’t know whether or not he did, or whether Hinz quoted him accurately, but I think I raised a legitimate question on the basis of a credible reporter’s post.
I have a lot more basis for my headline than you would for yours.
You really didn’t answer the question, did you?
If I published an article with the title: “Joe Zekas: Fact Hating Nausea Inducer?” how would you respond. Joe? Would you say “Hey, he used a question mark, so its cool” or would you say “That’s pretty outrageous”? How would you respond, Joe? Would the question mark make a difference?
With regard to the Hinz article: Did you do any investigation to figure out why residents may be opposed, or did you lazily reach a conclusion based on the fact of opposition?
Seriously, you either need to learn manners or reporting. Right now, you article has a rude headline, insulting suggestions in the article, and zero reporting.
DLewin,
Asking you to read is getting tiresome, but I’ll do it again. Reread my response:
“I have a lot more basis for my headline than you would for yours.”
You’re suggesting that Ald. Reilly either didn’t tell Hinz that residents “hated” the affordable housing component, or that Hinz misquoted him. What’s your basis for that?
Spare me any further manners lessons – you’re not exhibiting any competence for that role.
You’re implying you know the basis for community opposition, so how about sharing it.
Sure I read your note It was rude, short and fact-deficient.
Wait, they objected to a development? That means they must hate nurses! Great conclusion, Joe. I can’t imagine any other reason for somebody to object. Either that, or because they are bigots. Right Joe? Nurse haters or bigots. What else could it be?
Joe, share your wit and learning about Streeterville. Do nurses live in Streeterville? Do techs? Do students? In the immediate area of this development, are there buildings with Section 8? I’m sure you know the answers to those questions. Nobody would suggest that a community was “nauseating” or that they be bigots without knowing the answers to those questions. Making that suggestion without knowing the answers (or even asking the questions) would be nauseating.
I do know the basis for the opposition. So would you, if you asked somebody. However, when you suggest people are “nauseating” they are less inclined to help you out. You were lazy You used a rude headline based on no research. You made wild suggestions based on nothing at all. Worse, your comments show that you don’t have a clue why being called nauseating or a bigot might bother somebody.
I do love your “spare me the manners nonsense” comment. You insult a community, and the accuse seem to get upset when people question the headline, You truly have no facts, no manners, and no clue.
I would write more on the topic, but frankly, your column and your notes are making my stomach queasy.
A final note: I do love the last line of your column. You wrote:
“Has Streeterville finally realized the Captain’s dream of seceding from the United States – or at least from civilized society?”
In civilized society, people do not call others bigots or nauseating without any basis. Somehow, I doubt Joe Zekas finds the irony in his own words. See you Joe, I will be back here in civilized society, and you can continue to churn out your ride little diatribes outside the boundaries of polite society.
DLewin,
You keep punching away at the straw man you’ve conjured out of something other than my precise words, which did nothing more than ask a question and solicit answers to it.
Welcome to the Internet, where posing a question and answering it with a hypothetical is a common method of soliciting facts and triggering responses that misread the question.
What’s so ‘nauseating’ about wanting only market rate housing in your neighborhood?
I’m sure if, for example, one lived in Wilmette, he chose to do so for a reason as opposed to living in Waukegan or Chicago Heights.
I love not being surrounded by “affordable housing”. I don’t believe in mandated affordable housing. It’s unAmerican to force people to have to live next door to poor people because Uncle Sam (or Uncle Rahm, in this case) says so.
Joe, you really don’t get why suggesting that people might be nauseating bigots might annoy them?
I do love your suggestion. Do you mind if I post a question asking if you has indecent relations with pigs? The title for my article would be “Joe Zekas a Pig Screwer?
Would you agree that would be a good method soliciting facts and triggering responses? That wouldn’t bother you a bit, Joe. Right? After all, the goal would be to solicit facts. I don’t know the answer to that question so, following your example, I would post it like that, since you tell me the method is effective.
I don’t think I’m going to do that, Joe. It would be rude. However, I will give you a head’s up. If you are truly interested in soliciting facts, you might want to try this: How about a polite headline like “Does anybody know the basis of the objection to the Streeterville Golub Development”? If you did that, Joe, you might actually get factual responses.
Try being polite, Joe. Polite works in civilized society. if you decide to join civilized society, you might actually get factual responses.
tup,
Amusing example you chose, knowing where I live. Among other, more relevant reasons I chose Wilmette because it had more socio-economic diversity than other communities in the New Trier School District which I hoped my then pre-school kids would attend when the time came.
If an affordable housing development were developed next to you, how would you be “forced” to live there?
Radical segregation of communities by income is a fairly recent trend in American history, and not one that’s consistent with our ideals.
DLewin,
There you go again.
I understand that you’re annoyed. You’ve made that very clear. I don’t understand your insistence on misreading what I’ve said and ignoring my basis for saying it.
Was that your headline, Joe? Did I misread it? Stop blaming the reader. Your words were very clear. You chose them. Are you really so socially maladjusted that you don’t get why some people might find it rude?
Joe, please tell me the diffence between: “Nausea-inducing NIMBYism in Streeterville?” and “Joe Zekas Pig Screwer?”
You have no basis for “nauseating” just as I have no basis for “Pig screwer.”
Show me the difference, Joe. In the alternative, be a man and show some manners.
By the way Joe, you claim that you phrased the question as a means of obtaining facts.
In the past few months, I have also sought the reaction of people to the proposed development. Know how I went about determining that reaction? I went up to people and said “Hey, what do you think of the proposed development?” When they gave me an opinion, I followed up with “Really, why do you thinks so?” The result was that I figured out what the reaction was, the basis for that reaction.
You might want to try that method, Joe. It worked for me. In civilized society, it works pretty well. Try polite, Joe. Polite works.
Last note on this (unless, of course, Joe develops manners and re-phrases his story in a polite manner): Joe, you claim that your goal was to obtain facts.
Did it work, Joe? Did you get any facts? You may want to re-think that strategy, because it does not seem effective.
DLewin,
The strategy has clearly not worked in your case, nor did my polite suggestion to you that you state what you know about the basis for community opposition.
Do you really think your approach to this is enhancing your community’s image? Wouldn’t that purpose be better served by answering the question I posed rather than continuing to object to the way in which it was phrased?
Joe, has making a rude comment ever worked to get people to cooperate? You seem surprised by the lack of success.
Your last comment was exactly consistent with all your prior comments. Points for staying on topic, if that’s worth anything.
You were rude to the area residents. You don’t seem to get why people might not like your headline. Do you understand that calling people nauseating nurse hating bigots is not a nice thing to do? You seem to be having a really tough time with this one. Are you new to civilized society? In civilized society, people don’t like being called bad names.
Given your response, why in the world would you expect a polite response? You were rude. But yet you demand polite cooperation? Do you still not get that you were rude?
You claim my comments impacting the area? Get serious, Joe. You called them “nauseating” and suggested they are bigots You said the people hate nurses.. You really think my criticizing you for making those comments makes the residents look bad?
Do you really think you are enhancing your own image (frankly, I never heard of you, so I’m not sure you have any image) by calling people nauseating? By suggesting that your favored style is to toss out a rude comment, do you think you are winning any friends?
Do you still not get it? Be a man. Say you are sorry for the headline. Apologize for suggesting people are nurse-hating bigots. Do so, and people will be happy to help. But when you sling names, nobody is going to help you.
Enjoy writing a column that nobody reads, Joe. If you wonder why you don’t have any readers, you may want to look at your basic investigative techniques and your manners. That would be a good starting point to that career in journalism you apparently dream of.
DLewin,
I’m not and never will be in the habit of apologizing for statements I haven’t made.
Since you’re so enamored of facts, I’ll supply you with a few.
YoChicago has had 350,000 unique visitors in the last 12 months, and our other venues reach a wider audience.
I learned more than basic investigative techniques in the 5 years I spent practicing law at a large law firm, and doubt that you’re in a position to add to my knowledge of them.
If you had deployed “basic investigative techniques” to learn anything about me you wouldn’t be talking about me starting a career.
Statements you have not made? Do you read your own writing?
“Nausea-inducing NIMBYism in Streeterville?”
Was that your title, Joe?
“Did Streeterville residents really object to having nurses and other hospital workers as their neighbors?
Did you write that, Joe?
“Has Streeterville finally realized the Captain’s dream of seceding from the United States – or at least from civilized society?”
Were those your words. Joe? Bad news, Joe. If you say I’m blaming you for things you haven’t written, then it appears that somebody is blogging under your name. You should investigate the culprit!
Do you really think that adding a question marks makes those statements OK, Joe?
Do you honestly not get why people might read those statements and realize you had reached a conclusion?
Come on, Joe. Be honest. Show some guts. Be a man. You know what you meant. All four of your readers know too. Either stand up for your conclusions or apologize. Saying “Hey, but there was a question mark” is just acting the role of the coward. Don’t be a coward, Joe.
Regarding your bio: I didn’t look it up, because as much time as I’ve spent commenting over the past two days, I really don’t care. That being said, Five years at a big firm? I did laugh at that line. Oohhh! What a CV! We are so impressed! Did you ever walk into a courtroom alone? Wow! You are brilliant! If I ever need a privilege log, you will be the first person I call!
Whatever you once were, now you are just one more rude blogger. I was hoping you would come to your senses, but you haven’t. That’s what’s great about America. We have a First Amendment that protects communication even when it is rude and pointless. People like you can talk, and people like me can say “That Joe guy is one rude and clueless law firm dropout.
DLewin,
I was a corporate lawyer, not a litigator. The discipline of drafting makes you respect the difference between a statement and a question.
Let me help you out here, since you’re having difficulty with the concept: questions are sentences with a question mark at the end. They don’t state a conclusion.
You can have the last word in this apparently pointless exchange. Have at it.
DLewin –
Having lived in the Streeterville area for many years – Thank you and well said!!!
“I was a corporate lawyer, not a litigator. The discipline of drafting makes you respect the difference between a statement and a question.”
That sums it up. Corporate guys draft stuff, and then litigators need to figure out what in the world the corporate guys intended. The corporate guys dump it on paper, and then everybody else reads it scratching their heads.
Joe you said:
“Radical segregation of communities by income is a fairly recent trend in American history, and not one that’s consistent with our ideals.”
I counter with:
“Government-mandated and publically financed housing for the poor is a fairly recent trend in American history, and not one that’s consistent with our ideals.”
tup,
I’ll duck the politically-charged and endlessly debatable question of whether providing housing is a proper role for government, and fall back on the American spirit of generosity, concern and compassion.
Some of our ideals are not easily reconcilable with others; we make choices and set priorities.
I’m compassionate for the poor.
Not everybody can lease out apartments that rent for $2000 per month. Some landlords have to serve a less affluent niche. So why not have a private solution to create apartments that rent for $500 per month?
Right now, I can’t lease my apartments for $500 per month Here is what the government does that prevents me from doing so:
1. A stringent building code that nitpicks me and forces me to do x, y, and z with my building at my expense while rehabbing the property
2. That same building department requires that I have a licensed plumber, licensed electrician, licensed mason, licensed architect (license=overpaid union member, of course) work on my building. A licensed plumber charges around $750 per fixture, just as an example
3. That same government charges a ridiculous property tax and assesses the value of my property at more than double what I paid for it
4. That same government regulates an electric company that is now going to increase its rates
5. That same government makes it a laborious, time consuming, and expensive process to remove a tenant who does not pay his rent, of course at my expense.
There are TONS of people out there who would love to rehab cheaper property and rent it out to the less affluent, if only the Government would make it possible. And all the while we would not have to expend a penny of the public’s money, as opposed to these housing projects.
I can hardly blame them. Affordable housing is a scam designed to enrich politically connected builders and developers (think Peter Holsten).
Any and all departure from Market Rate Housing has done nothing but leave a path of destruction, especially in Chicago. I wish more people would stand up and be honest about it. Market Rate housing is the only way to build a strong community.
Andy,
It’s sad that you’re unfamiliar with the many successful affordable housing developments and affordable units in great buildings in top-tier Chicago neighborhoods.
You really need to get out and about more. Or do you have prejudices that won’t be affected by facts?