Comments ( 36 )

• Maniac Latin Disciples are getting it going again in Humboldt… considering we are heading into a depression, crime will seriosuly excalate..

• escalate

• Wot, no Pilsen?

• cgcg:

  Pilsen’s so special, it got an entire issue to itself.

• People should buy into Kenwood while the neighborhood is still affordable. Although the amenities aren’t there yet. They will come soon.
  The real estate always gets developed first before commercial development like the south loop. Businesses want to to see a bigger size population before they open up. The undesirable elements are being pushed out. I checked the Chicago police department statistics and crime is down significantly.

• A coffee house and a comedy club are anchors for a neighborhood spanning several square miles?

  The article’s a feast for the imagination. I need some serious time to digest it.

• I think pricewise & quality of housing stock, Kenwood is a way better buy than Edgewater or Lakewood Balmoral (aka where Andersonville is located).

• Joe Zekas said:

  A coffee house and a comedy club are anchors for a neighborhood spanning several square miles?

  This fact and the fact that there are few amenities is very indicative a bigger social problem. My brother is a franchise owner and he talks about how the company tried to steer him away from minority areas that have comparable income to non-minority areas. They would have rejected him had he decided to put the business in a minority area. In fact 100% of the company’s businesses is in non-minority areas!!! This is one of the white privileges written in the book Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack: White Privilege.

  Many corporations and business owners are prejudiced against minority neighborhoods even when the minority populations are AFFLUENT. Contrary to popular belief many minority neighborhoods aren’t all violent, gang infested, poverty stricken places. In their minds there is no such thing as affluent minorities and if they are they only live in white neighborhoods. In this economic recession, rather than relocate their business to somewhere else that isn’t super saturated they would rather just close and become a casualty of the recession. They can make more money out south where the lease and taxes are cheaper and less competition.
  When will these people get it. Chicago is bigger than downtown and the north side, Target, HomeDepot, Lowes, Starbucks, etc . finally get this, the others need to do so too.

• THank you so much! It’s nice to know someone else knows minorities on the southside live in nice homes and like to shop at the same stores white people do.

• futuredoc2012,

  Many corporations have made major efforts and incurred significant costs to expand into minority areas – although, given the demographics of Chicago, it isn’t quite right to call this a “minority” area.

  The issue with Kenwood for retailers is the low population density and purchasing power rather than the nature of the population. The purchasing power of individual households may be high, but aggregate purchasing power is low.

  That’s the issue in many areas. If retailers can’t find enough purchasing power and population density within a “trading area” they don’t locate there.

  The kind of discrimination you’re describing has almost completely vanished among franchisers, and many strive to locate in minority areas. It’s possible that your brother may have focused on a variable that was irrelevant to the franchiser’s decision.

• This is very untrue. When was the last time you saw a trader joes, fox and obel, new york and company, express, macys, calvein klein, bakers shoes, aldos soes, saks fifth avenue, panera bread, corner baker, macys, mortons, mchormick schmitts, cosi,old navy gap, banana republic, etc. in an black or Latino neighborhood? These places are found exclusively only in white neighborhoods. They might as well put up a sign. There is a huge economic disparity of uneven development that plagues the southside and people of color communities because many companies believe in negative stereotypes that are far worst than reality. They use density as an excuse.

  Kenwood, Hyde park, etc. has a huge purchasing power. If you check out the city of chicago demographics or new communities website you will discover this.Many of these companies claim that there is low density. But kenwood has a higher buying power per square mile(249million) than the suburban locations where they are located. The inner city single family homes is more dense than the suburbs where they are located. The median price for a single family detached home sells for above $623,000, has a retail leakage of above 200million dollars a year, and has a concentrated net worth of above 1 billion per year.

• The model companies use is out dated and is based on urban whites who reside in neighborhoods with many condos, while people of color reside in neighborhoods of single family homes. Based on the model and the companies they use for market information, it tells them they won’t be successful.
  It makes no sense to use a one size fits all approach which assumes everyone is living on top of each other in condos.

  Inequality and discrimination do exist and when people don’t acknowledge it it makes it that much harder to solve the problem.

• Futuredoc sounds like future community leader. 🙂

• Futuredoc2012,

  I take it that the demands of your studies keep you from getting out very much. If you get a chance, visit Chatham Village Square at 87th and Cottage Grove. Or just watch my video walk-around of it.

  Check out the Targets in Logan Square and McKinley Park. Take a look at all the national retail chains you haven’t mentioned that are located in minority neighborhoods.

  Macy’s and many other stores you mention can’t be found in white areas that are comparable to the minority areas where they can’t be found. Those “white” areas also lack the characteristics that appeal to a certain type of retailer.

  You’re looking for bias where none exists and not seeing it where it does. The grotesque bias that bars a lot of retail development in minority areas in this city exists in the aldermen, many of whom seem determined to do everything humanly possible to keep their communities from developing.

  Instead of spouting off here you ought to hire on as a consultant to all those misguided retailers. They’ll welcome the wisdom and experience you bring to their business.

  Leakage may be the silliest concept ever foisted on the public by parasitic urban-planning academics who have sworn a blood oath to remain ignorant of the realities of retail development.

• I agree with futuredoc. As a southsider i have to travel outside my neighborhoods for certain things. I love my beautiful home that would cost more somewhere else and the diversity of my neighborhood, so I’m not moving. The Kenwood neighborhood is cleaning up really well. I think its a great neighborhood for buppies but not for single people.

• no more tax hikes,

  Residents of Wilmette, Winnetka, Kenilworth and Glencoe have to travel outside their neighborhoods for almost everything. Are retailers discriminating against Chicago’s most affluent?

• Joe is way off here; the only reason there is a Starbucks in South Shore is that it was heavily subsidized and had celebrity backers – the line at the drive through is always long, yet there are NO OTHER Starbucks anywhere near there…

  And I think Joe is well aware that all of those suburbs are a) separate municipal entities and b) they have restricted what businesses they wish to have, unlike the south side.

• SheridanB,

  I’m well aware of corporate subsidies to expand into minority areas. I said, above, “Many corporations have made major efforts and incurred significant costs to expand into minority areas…”

  Are you certain those “celebrity backers” weren’t celebrity fronts for a corporate affirmative-action program? That’s been the case with many franchise forays into the South Side and minority areas around the country.

  As to the North Shore suburbs, I was poking fun at a simplistic argument, i.e. the notion that the absence of retail is the result of discrimination and nothing else.

• Why would a coffee shop entrepeneur even want to pay for a franchise?
  There are a few north siders that would say be careful what you wish for. Some activists want to boot out national franchises and subsidize small locally owned shops.

• Joe, affirmative action programs are obviously sorely needed since there are few shopping opportunities in middle income black neighborhoods, which are ignored, despite comparable incomes to similar white areas.

• SheridanB,

  Let’s get real. There’s heavy discrimination against white-owned businesses in many of those areas, generally with the support of the local alderman. Discrimination on the basis of race or ethnicity is ugly no matter who’s practicing it.

  Let’s also get out of the abstract realm. Give me an instance of comparable minority and white neighborhoods that we can talk about.

• SHERIDAN B

  You are so correct!!! I don’t think lincoln park, downtown or evanston needed celebrities or an any special organizations to bring starbucks or other organizations to their neighborhoods, just be virtue of their homogenous demographics was all they needed. There has to special organizations and groups to bring businesses to these communities. Joe will continue to deny the truth he lives in such an idealistic world.

• Joe

  There is no discrimination against white owned businesses. The alderwomen/men welcome new businesses. They actually subsidized businesses and offer incentives like free rent space for a few months. People can actually test these neighborhoods before they lease. The family Dollar chains are white owned. White owned independent owners don’t set up shop in minority neighborhoods they like to be either downtown or the northside or in other predominately white neighborhoods. The only exception to this I know of is Hyde Park.

• Do you guys seriously believe that businesses are passing up money-making opportunities solely because they’re in minority communities?

  Do you know anything at all about how large retail chains operate? Anything about how far American society has progressed over the last 40 years?

  You’re indulging fantasies rather than reflecting realities.

• I don’t think that businesses and entrepreneurs are passing us up because of the color of our skin. It is because many of these people tend to put minorities in a box and have certain beliefs of what people of colors’ dislikes and likes are. Some people think minorities won’t pay extra money for expensive organic foods. They think they will lose out to the many aldi stores in the community. Some people don’t think blacks or latinos have a taste for wines and various cheses because of the prevalence of liquor stores. There is little fine dining because people believe that blacks are the worst tippers. There is a high demand for upscale goods,services, nightlife and entertainment besides the movie theaters. People of color like sports bars, Italian food, moroccan food, wine tasting, and spas too. There still is the belief that minorities are cheap and mostly only shop at discount stores. Of course we’re going to shop there the most, its whats closet to us.

  I have never known an undeserved and underdeveloped white affluent neighborhood. While this is the case in every affluent minority neighborhood.

• I simply couldn’t resist a good blog about societal problems.This is exciting.

  We know all about how retailers operate: high density, car counts, competition in the area, crime, sight aesthetics, income, age, professions, etc. They seriously need too change their calculations to fit inner city predominately single family homes neighborhoods. Many companies
  like bestbuy, radioshack, and lowes have already done this while the others are still using the old model so they can justify their marginalization of people of color’s neighborhoods.

  These corporations are responsible for perpetuating inequality in society. Their absence causes minority neighborhoods to have lower property values which means they can’t accumalate wealth, and the wealth gap between minorities and whites persists in society. While society tells them they need to work harder, its their fault they have less wealth. People are turned off to buying into the neighborhoods which in turn results in less people in the neighborhood meaning they can never accomplish the needed density.

  Joe dismisses everyone’s concerns as “FANTASIES” is very insulting and disturbing. “Fantasies” is used incorrectly. Fantasy is a word describing a wanting pleasure, and utopia. I doubt discrimination is a fantasy for anyone who is experienced it. I doubt people sit around and daydream about having it happen to them.

  He doesn’t think discrimination is real. There is uncountable evidence that proves otherwise. I’m guessing hes a white male, so when he goes to buy a home or have already bought a home the Realtors will or have given him all the information he needs and shows him uncountable numbers of homes in every neighborhood and the realtor will spend excessive time giving him all the time and attention he needs and answering all questions. As a result of having this experience he thinks the realtor treats everyone this way, because its how they should be, but there is huge amounts of studies that prove otherwise. Yes this nation has come a long way , but we still have a long way to go before WE GET THERE.

• I don’t believe this discrimination everyone is writing about, but I do believe people still believe in negative stereotypes and are closed minded and this continues to hurt certain groups of people more than others.People have a natural tendency to be biased against things they don’t know about. Thats why its important to learn and expand you mind to different things.

  I see very few black people purchasing wine at the grocery stores or in attendance at war bars, which I visit very frequently each week. i ALSO DON’T SEE ANY WINE BARS IN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS. So if I want to open a wine bar, I won’t put it in a black neighborhood. I think I wouldn’t be successful. I live in a predominately white area so of course I see few blacks, but when I visited petit folie in hyde park I saw many of them were drinking wine, so my mind has changed a bit.

• futuredoc2012, no more tax hikes, SOCIOLOGYPROFESSOR, stoptheinsanityplease,

  We’ve often had people post under multiple names, but you’re the first to use 4 different aliases in the same comment thread.

  This is not a blog about social problems, and I’m not going to allow you to hijack it for that purpose.

• Futuredoc or who ever you are, Joe is spot on.

  Most are not soley with the business looking to fulfill a business model, but with the residents. I am sure you did not make a big deal when articles quote residents in Bronzeville who remark that ‘wanted to keep things as is, because if more whites moved in prices would go up’.

  Or how about the constant racists comments from residents, community leaders and The Alderman in Pilson who publically say they fear whites and yuppies would improve the neighborhood and drive up pricing?

  As some point people need to look inside and wonder why things are not getting done in their neighborhood instead of blamming others. Here are some recent articles where the residents are doing just that, standing up to other residents who claim having wanting a Petes instead of an Aldi’s store is some supportin some kind of “strictly Caucasian agenda”

  So stop being a Chicago Democrat and quit blaming others.

  http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=7135&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=60&S=1

  http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=7178&SectionID=1&SubSectionID=171&S=1

• Reading a recent article on the healthy banks of Chicagoland I was struck by how small and locally focused so many of them were. It reminded me of all those ethnic building societies of years past and how the whole idea of a community taking responsibility for itself, building it’s own businesses, developing itself and realizing that every dollar spent and saved was a vote, went away and now we define ourselves by the chain retailers who are adjacent to our homes on our commerical corridors. Sheesh.
  One would hope someone like the serial identity posting here would have his money in a minority owned bank which reinvested in the neighborhoods he is so concerned about, though I doubt it, and expecting botique foodie like Fox and Obel to be commonplace, let alone in business all over, is rather funny.
  For my money and dream lifestyle find me a neighborhood historic architecture with retailers in walking distance like a good butcher, a bakery with Rye bread, thrift stores, live poultry, historic architecture, a locally owned bank or two, a green grocer, an assortment of cheap eateries, access to the trains, in close proximity to Downtown that isn’t all frou frou fancy schmancy organic sea salty but still well maintained and stable with a multigenerational atmosphere and I’m there.

• Wonderfully well said, pilsenslav.

  The self-help ethnic loan societies still exist in some communities. Check out the dry cleaners in most parts of Chicago.

• WHAT: Time Out Chicago and 565 Quincy Open House
  WHERE: 565 Quincy
  WHEN: April 23rd 2009 from 6:00 pm to 9:00 pm

  Looking to live in the hottest loft & condo building in Chicago? On April 23rd guests are invited to indulge in Chopin Vodka Cocktails & comfort food, as well as check out the Q Room. Take advantage of the Q Room’s amenities with an evening of live music, bowling, billiards, putting green and more…

  The night doesn’t stop here! There will be a Raffle with a chance to win prizes from neighborhood shops & restaurants…

  Find out more & R.S.V.P @ Wisdomofqevent.com

• Events,

  That’s the thanks we get for linking to you – spammed in return!

  I’m only letting this pass because 565 Quincy is a client of ours.

  Don’t do it again.

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