Comments ( 28 )

• Another thing that intimidates parents is the size of New Trier I think the area would be better served if the school was divided in half (North/South New Trier or East/West New Trier). This helps create a smaller community feel where students feel they are not a number.

• anon,

  The adviser system makes New Trier a small school – kids start every day for 4 years with the same group / teacher. The kids at New Trier are anything but numbers.

  ADDED —

  The New Trier annual report just arrived in the mail. It contains a section titled “Making a Big School Feel Small.”

  In addition to the adviser system it mentions New Trier’s more than 160 student clubs, individual post-high school counseling that begins in sophomore year, participation in 35 interscholastic sports and dozens of intramural and no-cut sports and double-cast performing arts opportunities.

  New Trier also offers an “Integrated Global Studies School” – a small school-within-a-school setting.

• Except that it is a larger school and its harder to make extracurricular teams if you are average. Many of my friends who are graduates of New Trier do not speak highly about their experience. They recognize that its a fabulous school, but didn’t actually enjoy their time there. They were average to slightly above average students (B students) who have chips on their shoulder because they were not exceptional. They are smart enough to attend most graduate/professional schools; however, because they spent so much time with the very above average, they don’t think they can do it. Most people who elect not to attend New Trier do so b/c of its size. Why not divide the area into two high schools? They would be of equally high caliber and would feel more intimate.

• anon,

  Just a few years ago, when a growing student population forced the re-opening of New Trier’s Northfield campus, there was a lengthy and lively debate on whether to split the school in two. The decision was to open Northfield as a freshman campus with sophomores, etc. attending the Winnetka campus.

  There was genuine concern that splitting the school would dilute its excellence while producing few benefits.

  I have friends who attended New Trier West in the days when it was a 4-year school. They and their parents contended that the attendance boundaries were drawn at the time to “keep the Jews out of New Trier.” Some of that ugly history recurred, in a much diluted fashion, in the recent debate on the subject.

  Every kid, it almost doesn’t need saying, reacts differently to the way the school is constituted.

  My daughter was one of those above average but not exceptional students. New Trier’s reputation helped her get into a top-50 school – UC Santa Barbara. My son, though very bright, scored a below average GPA while excelling in all of his music classes. Neither of them “have chips on thier shoulder” from their New Trier experience and both are glad they attended.

• This is really great insight. Few parents even visit schools before they make decisions. This is true for the preceived underachieving CPS schools and the top suburban schools. The perception of schools by parents and kids is a topic of concern I’ve discussed at length with the author here.

• Joe,

  Thanks so much for posting about schools.

  Since you are a parent who decide to buy in the Northshore I was curious as to what went into the decision. Were there as many other options in previous years? In other words were Glenview and Northbrook held in such high regards back when you were finding a home. (I imagine the Glen was still a Navy Base.) As a father who is preparing to leave South Evanston to seek out a (self perceived) better district up north for our child, I would love to learn of others thought processes.

  Also if you know of any good online resources for learning about schools please let us know. I use Chicago Tribune’s community pages and the Sun times school ranking lists, which have some information. Then spoil what I learn by reading urban dictionary and watching high school produced YouTube films.

  Thanks.

• Dan,

  I heartily applaud your willingness to move for the sake of your child.

  Can’t answer your question without going into a fair amount of detail. Hope you don’t mind.

  Prior to moving to the North Shore I’d lived in Lincoln Park (Clark & Armitage / Dickens & Larrabee / 2333 Geneva) and DePaul (Armitage & Seminary) for 14 years.

  Looking out for my two pre-school kids’ interests is what triggered the move, with concerns for my son being the major factor. At the time he was an extremely active, easily distracted 4-year old who couldn’t go outside alone and would dart into the street when accompanied. Both kids had been in pre-school at Near North Montessori, and it wasn’t working for him, so we transferred him to a program at the New City Y, which did work for him.

  I was also becoming repelled by the behavior of my new yuppie neighbors in the Armitage / Seminary area where we lived. They’d literally honk their horns, gun their engines and scream at my kids if they moved too slowly through an intersection or down a sidewalk. I began to feel like I was living among savages.

  When we considered schools where we were, I ruled out Parker and Latin based on the attitudes of the kids / parents I knew from there at the time. I knew my son wouldn’t make it in public school. If we were to stay in the area we would have sent the kids to St James Lutheran, just two blocks from where we lived.

  Weighing everything, we decided to move. We looked at a lot of homes in Edgebrook. My then wife ruled it out based, sad to say, on the hair styles of the locals, how they dressed, and the fact that many were police and firefighters. She had grown up very affluent; I had grown up very poor. My approach was firm: I’d rather have my kids grow up with cop values than yuppie values.

  I had a number of partners / investors at the time who knew I was looking to move. They began talking up various parts of the North Shore and the phrase that kept recurring was “New Trier.” The more I learned about New Trier, the more I knew I wanted my kids to go there, so we began looking in Wilmette and Winnetka, looked at a lot of places and talked to a lot of people. We didn’t look at Glenview because the wife had ruled out anything that wasn’t North Shore. Evanston didn’t seem to work for my son.

  The decision became a tug of war – the wife wanted Winnetka for status reasons; I wanted Wilmette because it seemed to me to be relatively oblivious to status issues. Moving to Winnetka seemed to me to be jumping from a yuppie frying pan into yuppie hellfire. I wouldn’t have the same concern today – learned that Winnetka’s not as homogenous as I then perceived it to be.

  Wilmette proved to be a spectacular choice. My son could ride his bike around our then downtown Wilmette neighborhood – people were very conscious of kids and very solicitous of their safety and emotional well-being and there were lots of little kids around. Central School handled everything my son threw at it without a ripple, although I did have to accompany him on field trips. He quickly outgrew his early difficulties.

  Following a divorce the kids moved to the Romona School district and also attended Wilmette Jr High – they just missed the opening of Highcrest as 5-6 school – and then New Trier. All of Wilmette’s schools are places where kids can thrive and find ways to develop whatever unique talents they have. New Trier’s outstanding music programs, led by a demigod by the name of John Thompson, made my son’s high school experience, I’m convinced, far better than any he would have had anywhere else. New Trier brought out the best in my daughter also and, I think, helped her to get into a better college than she might have if she’d gone elsewhere. Both kids had great teachers who genuinely cared about the kids and became involved in their lives.

  I lived in a small rented house west of the tracks in Kenilworth for 5 years and came to like that community a lot. It’s a very North-Shore-not place in a lot of ways despite its affluence. Give it some consideration. Sears school is awesome, and walkable from anywhere in Kenilworth. It’s well worth living in less of a home to send your kids there.

  Moved back to Wilmette when I had to move my kids in with me and needed a larger home. Inertia has kept me here even though my son and daughter have long since moved on. It’s an easy commute to my River North office and within striking distance of my son who now lives in Antioch.

  There are so many excellent schools on the North Shore and in the near North Shore communities that you really can’t go wrong whichever you pick. If New Trier is your goal, don’t rule out any part of its attendance area, including Northfield and the small pocket of Glenview east of Harms Rd.

  I realize that my decision process was driven by a peculiar set of values and, in retrospect, by too many incompletely examined assumptions about different communities. Looking back I think Wilmette made it easier for my kids to grow up without acquiring an attitude that they were better than people who didn’t have as much money as they did, which was a primary goal for me in choosing where I moved.

  If you can, avoid making assumptions. Lock in on a few areas that you can afford, get to meet some of your prospective new neighbors at community events, and move to wherever feels right. If it’s Northbrook or Glenview or Deerfield or Wilmette or Winnetka, etc you’re unlikely to make a wrong move, so be willing to narrow your choices somewhat arbitrarily.

  One final caveat: if your child has any special talents, then choosing the right schools becomes more critical. If you have a math whiz, future musician, performance artist, swim star or tennis player you may want to lock in on the New Trier district. Other north and North Shore schools have special strengths in other areas that might make a difference in your child’s life.

  And one added consideration – if possible, keep your kids in the same school system / general area throughout their school career. My kids’ lives have been very much enriched by the continuity of their friendships, some of them dating to pre-school and continuing into their late 20s.

• Joe,

  That post was fantastic!

  Thank you for your gracious response; it was very insightful and thorough. You gave my wife and I another perspective to weight into our north shore search.

• Dan,

  If you have any follow-on questions I’d be happy to take a stab at answering them.

• I am constantly amazed that ANYONE would turn their back on the opportunity to send their kid to NT. They are there to get an education- not to feel good about themselves because they got a few minutes playing for a watered-down football team. Kids need to learn that they have to compete if they want to succeed. If your kid is scared of that fact then you should have started their preparation for the real world much much sooner than high school.

• STARCHY,

  Fear of competition is probably the least of the reasons why parents opt to enroll their kids in schools other than New Trier.

  Some parents fear that it wouldn’t be competitive enough for their kid – including those who judge New Trier as having a “watered-down football team.”

• “Fear of competition is probably the least of the reasons why parents opt to enroll their kids in schools other than New Trier.”

  “Some parents are intimidated by New Trier on their children’s behalf”

  Gee Joe, which is it? make up your mind dude!!!

• STARCHY,

  There’s no contradiction in those statements.

  Stop entering phony info into our URL link with your ID. At some point it will be easier to remove you than to continue removing the links. That point occurs the next time you do this.

• Thanks Joe -‘s’ is all we need….

• If you are looking for a well rounded kid, not spoiled, and has the ability to get along with anyone in the “real world” market place,then look to Evanston High School.

  My son (only child) went to a small Catholic school so we were a little scared at sending him to a big high school at first. But he chose ETHS over Loyola and it has been the most rewarding experience I could have ever dreamed for him. He is graduating this year and has just been excepted into 8 of the 10 schools he applied to. From TCU,Purdue, Miami of Ohio, Dayton, Clemson, etc. Wants to go out of state and has really learned a sense of self worth through both tough competion in classes and on the sport fields.

  He also got to participate in a play that is put on by all the local kids who are not involved in the School Theater program ( very competive at ETHS. If your looking for a well rounded child who can handel themself with both very well off and poor children ( real world) ETHS is the place! I too was in Lincoln Park (Old Town) 12 years, we decided to have a child and debated between Evanston and New Trier.

  I have nothing bad to say about New Trier but Im so glad he went to ETHS. I know he is more prepared then most kids his age for the world ahead of him! ETHS has a great Math and Science department. The Honors and AP classes are fantastic. We just got back from a visit to TCU and an ETHS student he meet at TCU said his ETHS AP classes were all harder then his freshman TCU classes, especially English. My son writes a 5-8 page paper everynight in his English Ap class. He is prepared for College!

• what ever you say Joe- you’re the boss!

• My two cents for the alternative approach of being the big fish in the little pond instead of the other way around. Our daughter is graduating from Niles West High School this year. She was co-captain of her tennis team and in the orchestra for 4 years. She is in the top 5% of her class. She was recently accepted to University of Illinois engineering program which is in the top 5 in the country and also Cal Poly for architecture which is also top 5. Many of her friends have been accepted into other top colleges through out the country. Our children do not have to go to the “top” scoring ACT school to be noticed by colleges and sometimes other schools are much better fits.

• To anyone reading this: You are a GOOD parent who is honestly concerned with your child’s well being. If you are doing research into this subject then it shows that you care and your kids will have a great experience at NT and be glad they went there.

  As for those of you who have heard the horror stories from past grads: I was one of those kids. My parents moved us from the city when I was 7 due to the education factor. But moving us up there meant that both my parents had to work long hours and my sister and I became neglected in the process. They also started fighting a lot about money and we, therefore, became less important. And this isn’t a problem that is secluded to the “poorer” kids on the North Shore. Nearly every 1%’er that I knew there was completely neglected as well. Their parents were always working, traveling, or socializing. Many of us were left to raise ourselves and it was lonely and scary. Our parents assumed we would grow up perfect because of the safe neighborhood and the excellent education – but every child needs an involved parent to fight and to care for them.

  So, here is my point: When I arrived at college I realized how amazing of an education I had gotten and how lucky I was. But I would never say my experience at NT was a good one. I needed an adult in my life who cared for me and who helped me to see all the amazing opportunities I had access to. And someone who gave me the confidence and guidance to excel in those things. But, since I didn’t have that, and since NT was such a big school, I got lost in the shuffle. I didn’t know how to identify what was in my best interest and then attain those goals. I was only struggling to survive it all.

  So, if you have a kid with guidance then they will be fine. But if you don’t want to be a parent then send your kids elsewhere. If they are not strong and a fighter (luckily I had a lot of fight in me and I made myself keep my head above water – but just barely- I did not excel but I survived to see better days) then NT is not the place for them. The teachers there are too busy to be your kid’s parent.

  P.S. As to separating into East and West it is a TERRIBLE idea. All the money is East. Secluding those kids from each other will have detrimental effects on both. That mix is one of the only things that keeps those kids grounded (East) and focused on what they could have (West). You won’t see the effects of the separation right away, but withn 15 years it will be a glaring and obvious mistake which will then turn into a big fight between East and West parents. Each student from each background brings something to the table. Don’t mess with that. It’s the reason NT is so good for so many kids (just like ETHS which that previous post mentioned – it’s the acceptance of each other that readies us for the real world). Seclusion=Delusion.

• NTGrad,

  Thanks for sharing your experience.

  I think you’ve misunderstood how the Northfield (West) and Winnetka (East) campuses differ. West is for freshman throughout the district. East for sophomores, etc. throughout the district.

• This is an old thread, but in case someone Googled it like I did, I thought my two cents might be valuable. I am a New Trier parent who moved to the district because of the schools and who is considering moving my child to ETHS.

  My child has an IEP for ADHD, but has always liked school. My child does not test well. It has been a fight at New Trier to let my child take the classes my child wants to take. AP classes are entirely off limits, and the school feels my child is incapable of taking both science and social science, my child’s two favorite subjects, in the same year, even though my child’s grades were fine freshman year and my child wanted to. My child is so demoralized that my child now hates school.

  The social work supports are wonderful, and there are many great classroom teachers, but the attitude has been poisonous for us.

  ETHS will let anyone try an honors or AP class, and is committed to giving the necessary supports. This is a trend in schools nowadays, but not at New Trier. So if you have a child who excels, New Trier might be a better choice so your child can be with others who are of a similar intellectual caliber and not be held back. But if you have a child with difficulties who wants to push themselves, I would find another school.

• If you are reading this comment stream, you are likely a concerned parent considering New Trier Township and its feeder schools. You are right to be wary and concerned.

  The New Trier district has a loyal (and sometimes cult-like) following, particularly among those who grew up on Chicago’s North Shore. But if you have experienced other high-performing school districts in other parts of the country, or solid private schools, you may find as my wife and I did.. that New Trier and its feeder schools are decidedly mediocre.

  I am a former Wilmette parent whose children experienced several years in different environments: New Trier Township schools, an excellent public school district on the West Coast, and private schools. I can say without any doubt that the New Trier experience was absolutely the most MEDIOCRE of all my children’s school experiences. I would also add that my friends who have kept their children at New Trier seem to have experienced many more academic, social, and emotional troubles and issues than those who decided to avoid it.

  Here are some of the issues I have seen:

  – the size of the high school and its feeder school districts creates a “factory-school” atmosphere.. as I recall the middle school in Wilmette had something like 21 classes of 25+ fifth-graders.. and NO, the adviser system at New Trier absolutely does not compensate for this effect

  – the size and competitiveness of the high school disadvantages student-athletes who have not specialized in a specific activity since early age (an approach not recommended by sports trainers or pediatricians)

  – the size and competitiveness of the high school disadvantages students applying to elite colleges most of which do not compensate for the above-average size of the New Trier graduating class… luckily for some NT grads, it seems the two most prestigious local universities (NU and UC) are exceptions to this general rule..

  – the academic and teaching quality of the schools is mediocre when compared to other high-performing public districts and private schools.. we had precious few standout teachers in our experience in the district when compared with our experience elsewhere

  – the affluence of the district, combined with the large size of the schools creates a culture of materialism

  I would suggest looking at alternatives.. other nearby districts.. private and catholic schools, etc.

• NT alum here: huge school with amazingly talented kids.

  Prepared me for life in so many ways I can’t begin to tell you. Definitely the big leagues, though, and if you want to be a big fish in a small pond (gee, I wish life were that way), look elsewhere.

  There is always a bigger dinosaur at NT, whether it be brains, athletics, the arts, whatever.

• I have to echo what Concerned Parent said. I have had exactly the same experience with my child and have exactly the same concerns.

  My child was advised not to take both history and science her freshman year, her two favorite subjects, and she had to fight to have her take five majors at level 2 sophomore year despite the unanimous opinion of her teachers that her test scores did not reflect her intelligence and she could handle a harder schedule.

  This was not a matter of her parents pushing her: she made out the schedule she wanted and was told it would be too difficult for her. She was not allowed to even try Chemistry sophomore year, because her math ability was considered not to be strong enough.

  Like you said, the classroom teachers are mostly fantastic, as is the social work, but we have found New Trier to be holding my child down academically and thwarting her aspirations. When she heard that Evanston would allow her to try AP Biology we seriously considered moving.

  Yes, New Trier has a lot of opportunities, but there are some definite downsides aside from the size. And I would say that another of its downsides is that it’s a legend in its own mind and the administration has an unwarranted arrogance that does not make for good relations with the families.

• The feedback from Another Concerned Parent above is exactly spot on. It is a theme I hear frequently from friends who have made the mistake of keeping their kids at New Trier.

  I have heard far too many stories about their children being discouraged from taking challenging courses that are apparently too full, about students being talked out of applying to colleges that already have too many Trevians applying, and about solid athletes having no hope of participating in a meaningful way on an over-crowded athletic team (100+ runners on a no-cut cross-country that can only have 7 varsity runners.. or just being cut).

  I suppose the locals simply accept this as the way it is. But it is clearly damaging to many kids.. And if you look at the numbers, you’ll see New Trier’s acceptances to top-tier schools are far below that of other comparable high-performing suburban public schools (e.g. Scarsdale, NY or Gunn in Palo Alto). Stay way if you can..

• Former New Trier Parent,

  My experience tells me that your viewpoint is definitely in the minority among New Trier parents.

  As to being “talked out of applying” to schools – my daughter was talked out of applying to UC Santa Barbara by NT guidance staff and talked into it by me. She loved her four years there. The notion that NT counselors can succeed in talking high-achieving students out of applying to schools they want to attend is very suspect.

  I find any comparisons to “top-tier” schools acceptance rates to be uninformative for any number of reasons, not the least of which is that almost no one is deciding whether to move to Scarsdale or Palo Alto rather than Winnetka or Wilmette.

  I’m not suggesting New Trier is right for every kid, just that your most recent comment adopts too narrow a perspective on some aspects of a kid’s experience at New Trier.

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