Subscribe: 
If you don’t read Levois’ Sixth Ward blog regularly, you might have missed a recent discussion over there regarding an observation by the Chatham/Avalon Park Community Council about “an influx of young whites into the Chatham enclave over the past three years.” Are they Olympics speculators, or are they gaming the city’s first-time buyer programs, the Council blogger asks. (The possibility that they want to live there is never raised.) Levois has done a good job in starting the conversation, linking back to some other Community Council posts about Mexican-Americans moving into Chatham, other residents moving out of Chatham, and whether Chatham will ever be “South Looped.”
Facebook
Google Buzz
Digg
LinkedIn
StumbleUpon
del.icio.us
Google Bookmarks
Live
Posterous
Reddit
Technorati
Tumblr
email
No related posts.
{ 13 comments }
That’s not a surprise, it’s a nice neighborhood. I think I may have posted this here before, but I know of a few white gay couples moving to South Shore due to some of the reasons listed in the linked discussion above. A lot of the posters sound like white’s did in the 50s and 60s in the same neighborhoods….
I know that Jesse Jr & Sandi say they want more gay people to move to SS to raise property values, however, until they can guarantee our safety*, I don’t believe that many will follow them.
*I mean from targeted, homophobic attacks, not crime in general.
Change is always good no matter who moves in, especially if the change is positive. It’s a nice area and I hope it continues that way even if it’s full of people with different backgrounds.
BTW, thanks Joe Askins.
I can’t see it being South Looped nor should it be. It is an established residential community and I hope anyone who moves there helps to keep it nice.
Chatham is one of the jewels of Chicago’s south side. Talk about “gentrifying” Chatham is almost laughable, since it’s home to many of Chicago’s African-American gentry.
Chatham has better-quality housing than many pricier north side neighborhoods. See my take on that subject at YouTube.
You can see a bit more of Chatham at our South Triangle playlist at YouTube, including a 5-part interview with Chatham’s late, great Dempsey Travis. You can also see 100s of photos of Chatham in our album at Flickr, or view them as a slideshow.
“whether Chatham will ever be “South Looped.”
How about it being Hyde Parked? A stable multiracial neighborhood.
“…an influx of young whites into the Chatham enclave over the past three years.” Are they Olympics speculators, or are they gaming the city’s first-time buyer programs…”
Are young whites exempt from the city’s first time home buyer program?
Some responses from a co-writer of Levoi’ 6th Ward Blog…
—
Not so laughable, Joe.
Many of Chatham residents are senior citizens, and didn’t have “Pill Hill” careers. With the huge drop in 401 K’s, rising prices (especially in home maintainence, and education, for their kids going to college), it
Those inheriting buildings have different issues (such as going back to school), to allow them to be in an escalating real estate market
Uptown Chicago Commisison lost their 20+ year grant to help seniors with their housing (i.e add rails for them through HRAIL), because very few older residents were owning or even market-renting their homes (they either moved out, or went to senior centers).
—
CaptainVideo (from the Korean Drama boards??): My one concern about “HydeParking” is that it will price out longtime residents of the community : Working class, law abiding, but unable to keep up with real estate prices, and barely able to even buy under current conditions. This has already happened in Uptown. The middle class gets squeezed out, so only the lowest income are able to even have some hope.
—
GC, Sure, whites can be a part. But it’s more likely that they would misuse the intent of such monetary programs . It’s been 50 years since a significant number of whites were in Chatham…it’s a legitmate question to wonder why now? The idea of the incentives is to help anchor a community with stable housing…it is NOT to help someone take overly advantage of the real estate market: not to buy and then flip , and then leave the community. The home may be a starter house, but the ideal is that the family will stay in the community, and continue to become a leader, thereby truly stabilizing it by changing the character of the people – not the faces (which simply move the “problem” to someone less able to handle them)
JP Paulus,
Perhaps I painted with too broad a brush, associating Chatham only with its affluent pockets and ignoring the middle-class and, yes, poverty-stricken areas.
I can’t match your familiarity with Chatham, but what I see as an outsider is a community that’s posied to decline due to an influx of poor and troubled families from public housing projects, the aging of its citizenry, and middle-class African-Americans bypassing it in favor of other areas, including the suburbs..
Rising real estate prices don’t strike me as much of a factor, since most of Chatham is easily affordable by the middle class – that, and its attractive and generally well-maintained housing stock being among its attractions to African-Americans and whites alike.
Chicago’s history provides many reasons to be skeptical of an influx of whites into black communities. Will they be speculators or long-term residents? I’d like to think that enough has changed that the jury should still be out on that question.
It causes me pain to agree with Joe Zekas, but I am very skeptical about any large influx of whites into Chatham.
About ten years ago a black woman I worked with claimed whites were moving back into Roseland on the far south side. What it turned out to be was largely speculators who bought foreclosures and either rented them to Section 8 tenants or sold the homes for a quick profit.
Now I wouldn’t be surprised if some mixed race couples were buying in Chatham as it is a decent neighborhood. Large numbers of whites? I really doubt it. I don’t think we are there yet in terms of race relations.
Now the Jackson Park Highlands mini-hood in South Shore has a stable white minority, but the houses are generally grander than Chatham and most of the owners seem to have ties to the University of Chicago.
At this point Chatham should welcome ANY potential long term owners as I share the Zekasian concern about Chatham slowly becoming another Englewood.
The pattern for people to move out of the south side into the neighboring suburbs was established 50 years ago by whites and now blacks are following a similar script.
Of the many things that annoyed me about the “Reverend Wright” what really bothered me was his having his church buy him a 1 million dollar house in Tinley Park. Nothing around Chatham or Morgan Park/Beverly was good enough for him? How about Jackson Park Highlands, Rev?
The city needs a thriving black middle class and neighborhoods like Chatham are vital to that.
Losing a neighborhood like Chatham to ghettoization and eventual depopulation is bad for society.
Joe,
The prices may not be as much a factor for some families now, but if Chatham is “South Looped” or “Hyde Parked”, then certainly those who are in high school and college now will find it impossible to come back, if we get the Olympics and thus artificially inflate prices. Also, those prices will far outpace income raises, so people who nee to ‘upgrade” won’t be able to in Chatham.
One of the things that neighborhoods like Uptown and now Chatham is facing is that the community seems to me to have failed to impress on the youth that they are wanted , and there is opportunity for them to live (i.e. own) and invest in the community they grew up in.
You bring up some valid concerns about factors that COULD lead to the “downfall” of the neighborhood. But I think they could be addressed if the seniors would help mentor the newer residents, and some efforts were made to create businesses and organizations to meet the needs of the younger generations
IrishPirate, you’ve been away from the south side 2-3 times as long as I have from Uptown. Isn’t it about time you let go, and stop commenting on a place you haven’t lived in along time? (Folks, that’s a sarcastic inside joke..IP I am sure will elaborate on his blog)
Regarding where we are in race relations: can you elaborate? Are you talking about blacks accepting larger numbers of whites, or of whites willing to be a minority? It’s a thought provoking statement worthy of real discussion.
Regarding Rev Wright – do you really think he or any Trinity leader is reading this?
And what he’s doing (in terms of residence) isn’t that different than James Cappleman (who you supported politically) not living near most of the people he helps at his job on the south side of Chicago.
I certainly think his house is indeed too expensive, but other leaders on that letter’s list do in fact live much more simply. So you can’t judge them all because of one person’s sins. Otherwise a person would be justified in not voting for James Cappleman due to the What the Helen videos, or Sandra Reed because of the infamous bookmarks.
Some good discussion….look to Levois’ TheSixthWard blog for more discussion on these issues…
JP,
There is, in my view, zero chance of Chatham being South Looped or Hyde Parked. I also see near zero possibility that the Olympics will have any impact on property values in Chatham.
Your notion of mentoring is intriguing. Doesn’t a great deal of that take place through the churches in Chatham?
The idea that the Olympics is going to drive up property values in a wide swath of city neighborhoods is absurd. Unless one somehow assumes the Olympics will lead to greater incomes in said neighborhoods. I am pro-Chicago Olympics, but I don’t think of the Olympics as some kind of magic event that will grandly permanently transform Chicago for the better.
Now there may be some permanent impact on property values near the Michael Reese property and possibly around the eastern end of Washington Park, but my guess is that would be about it.
Chatham is too far away from the Olympics sites to expect any real impact.
The idea of hordes of white folks buying in Chatham is ridiculous. It ain’t gonna happen. Academic studies generally show that most whites are comfortable living in a stable community that is no more than 20-30 percent black folks. If you go beyond that percentage whites either don’t move in or slowly move out re-segregating the community. At some point a community reaches a “tipping point” and few if any whites will buy there.
It’s not a “pretty” phenomena, but it’s true.
The few areas where it doesn’t hold true, like Hyde Park, normally have some huge “anchor” institution that changes the dynamic.
JP, as for Reverend Wright I happen to believe that a “shepherd” should live among his flock. Besides the cost of the house, which points out the Rev’s inflated ego, the location is problematic. Reverend Wright was the pastor of the most influential black church in Chicago. He should live nearby. Tinley, ain’t nearby. By the way I doubt Reverend Wright reads this site. It’s his loss. My commentary alone is worth the price of admission.
How you conflate a social worker with a prominent minister is beyond me. Then again, to you everything comes back to Uptown and YOUR experience.
Don’t worry. Middle class whites will not be moving in to Chatham in any significant numbers. Chatham will rise, fall or remain stable based on whether working class and middle class blacks remain.
Comments on this entry are closed.